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BeauB
01-10-2007, 07:33 AM
Hi Folks,
We have a new brewery project going on and we are facing a hard water problem. Here are some of the water specs Calcium 125 ppm, Magnesium 64 ppm, Sulfate 25 ppm, Sodium 25 ppm, TDS 250, GPG 15. Our Softener guy says that the sodium added to lower the hardness with take us up to 225 ppm sodium but drop everything else down. But from my understanding this sodium level is way to high for brewing? So softening doesn’t seem to be the answer. My concern with the hardness is not so much flavor but more with scaling in the Hot Liquor tank and in our kettle and for that matter our fermenters. The obvious choice or not would be reverse osmosis but at this time it is not in our budget though is a consideration down the line. My question is how are those of you with hard water treating it? If you are not treating it what methods are you using to remove scale from the tanks? Thanks in advance for the help.

Beau

liammckenna
01-10-2007, 09:40 AM
How's your carbonate level?

An easy way to help with scaling is to have an incoming brewing water tank with ph sensor which drives a small dosing pump with phosphoric acid (other acids work as well). Depending on your consumption, can often be the easiest and cheapest way to deal with your issue. pH set point for pump controller should be 6-6.2 to start and you'll have to mess with the 'stroke' length of the pump to prevent overdosing (water is very poorly buffered). The tank must also have a pump and at least fractional recirculation for continuous mixing.

Simple and effective. You'll want to test the acidified brewing water and take into account new numbers for varous ions when determining your brewing salts in the brewhouse.

Pax.

Liam

tariq khan
01-10-2007, 09:53 AM
You can use those red tablets to measure your alkalinity in a sample of water. Your brewing salt/chemical supplier should be able to help you.
English water tends to have a lot of bicarbonate, so we treat it with Murphy's AMS liquor treatment which I think is Hydrochloric acid.

T

Greenbrewmonkey
01-10-2007, 03:40 PM
Hello Beau,

Our water is higher than yours! Rather than the dosing pump, which will work, we just run acid CIPs on all our equipment on a regular basis. A little more in chemicals every week, but it keeps things clean. There are some smaller RO systems that are pretty reasonable, at least in the big picture, but for now, we like the beers, just not the scale. So caustic, then acid, and sparkly clean!

Cheers,
Ron
Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

sks
01-18-2017, 08:22 AM
Sorry, but does the addition of acid prevent the mineral from depositing itself on piping and heat exchange surfaces?
Joe


How's your carbonate level?

An easy way to help with scaling is to have an incoming brewing water tank with ph sensor which drives a small dosing pump with phosphoric acid (other acids work as well). Depending on your consumption, can often be the easiest and cheapest way to deal with your issue. pH set point for pump controller should be 6-6.2 to start and you'll have to mess with the 'stroke' length of the pump to prevent overdosing (water is very poorly buffered). The tank must also have a pump and at least fractional recirculation for continuous mixing.

Simple and effective. You'll want to test the acidified brewing water and take into account new numbers for varous ions when determining your brewing salts in the brewhouse.

Pax.

Liam

liammckenna
01-18-2017, 08:47 AM
Sorry, but does the addition of acid prevent the mineral from depositing itself on piping and heat exchange surfaces?
Joe

Yes, but good quality stainless is essential. Poly water lines can work. Not friendly to copper pipes or soft metal fittings.

Essential to regularly check sensor and dosing against another standalone meter.

Wow. Many moons ago on this post.

Pax.

Liam

Buckeye Hydro
01-25-2017, 03:22 AM
Our customers that require a softener typically follow up with an RO, for the reasons you mention.

Russ

sks
01-25-2017, 01:47 PM
Yes, we have a copper water main and it stays copper up to the hot liquor tanks. What sort of pH would be targeted? I've heard anything fro 6.5 to 5.0. What sort of data is there on the mineral retention compared to a 7-7.5pH water after its heated to 175F?
Any sort of info would be helpful.