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Moutas
09-02-2017, 02:07 AM
Hi everyone!

We have a BBT tank appears to have beer stone (correct me if I'm wrong).
I have run out of ideas, we have runned many cycles of chlorinated caustic, nitric acid and phosphoric acid.
Concentrations were 4-5% for 60min.
After 2 cycles we used only the acids for about 5 times more, we used cold and hot temperatures also.

I have some samples that can give you an idea.

After the first CIP
https://photos.app.goo.gl/YaDeg6SNjv9evktE2

Later
https://photos.app.goo.gl/PsSNPJNvPeXUsaAl2
https://photos.app.goo.gl/tDewhvr4OUAPCNVE3

And finally we got there
https://photos.app.goo.gl/4Ckpa9p8BKONSvcY2

The organics seems to cleaned out nice.

But I'm guessing the rest won't come off with CIP.

How bad is it?
Maybe scrub it by hand, with what?

Any opinions would be great.

UnFermentable
09-02-2017, 02:49 AM
Definitely looks like beer stone (calcium oxalate) to me.

As a heads up, this can happen when using certain caustic cleaners in a co2 rich environment. Make sure you purge your tank of any co2 before your caustic cycles. Co2 will also reduce the effectiveness of your caustic by up to 50%.

I would suggest looking at the Birko Corp website and following Dana Johnsons procedure of running an acid cycle, no rinse, followed by caustic. He also outlines this method in the July/August edition of New Brewer. This is supposed to help loosen strong protein bonds and help you remove stuck stuff. Or give him a call/email. He is very good.

I found this method to be highly effective, but I have only used it for tough kettle, mash, & lauter deposits and not for calcium oxalate. The same theory should still apply as the calcium oxalate is bound with strong proteins.

Your other option is to run the acid cycle (nitric/phos) for much longer than an hour. I would suggest avoiding scrubbing the tanks as you are likely to scratch them and make a place for bacteria to harbor.

wailingguitar
09-05-2017, 09:53 AM
I 2nd calling Dana at BIRKO. Show him the pics and ask for procedure on how to handle it.

BrewinLou
09-06-2017, 12:49 PM
Looks like scaling to me. The locations are very telling. Beer stone is not picky about where it forms. I have seen the whole inside of a tanks covered in it. The locations you have it happening look to be weld/polish points. Is this an imported tank? I have seen many imported tanks rust up like that due to poor quality stainless and poor passivation.

Dirk Loeffler
09-11-2017, 07:07 PM
Well, this should be beer stone or calcium oxalate as it should otherwise come out with the acids and concentrations you used. Beer stone can be stubborn. I would recommend a dedicated beer stone removal cycle using a special beer stone remover. Call or e-mail me and I will send you product info.
Dirk Loeffler
Technical Director
Loeffler Chemical is Corp.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

beerguy1
09-13-2017, 06:09 AM
As a heads up, this can happen when using certain caustic cleaners in a co2 rich environment. Make sure you purge your tank of any co2 before your caustic cycles. Co2 will also reduce the effectiveness of your caustic by up to 50%.


BINGO, thats the problem had an issue with that in 1 of our tanks. We eventually got all the stone out but it left a permanent mark, the only way to get that out is to have it polished out and I wasnt going to pay for that. Flushing that CO2 out is important

Moutas
11-07-2017, 10:24 AM
Those were great info guys!

I would like share another tip for stone removal, given from a fellow brewer.

2-3% caustic soda recirculation at 85C for an hour or 2 and the wash off with water at 85C .

It's worth trying and we've seen fair results.
( Be sure to let the tank cool down by its own, ideally close to room temperature before adding anything colder. )

Thank you all!