PDA

View Full Version : Beer brand final touch



Pablo Alvarez
03-03-2007, 11:45 AM
We have developped a product line named "brand final touch" allowing to produce "special beers" by adding these brand makers to a classical pale beer just before bottling.

All our"final touch" beer brand producers contain exclusively natural aroma compounds (fruits and spices aroma compounds), natural colouring (fruit colours and dark malt extracts) and clouding agents (essential oils emulsions stabilised with vegetal gums).

WB-MIX has been set up to produce a white beer with taste, flavour and cloudy aspect similar to main commercial Belgian white beers which are refreshing and thirst-quenching. WB-MIX has to be added to a standard base beer with low bitterness (10-12 EBU) as unique requisite to obtain a white beer. This brand maker can be customized on demand.

We can also mention: KB-MIX (fruits and spices colour and aroma compounds) to produce cherry beer (kriek-like), fruits and spices colour and aroma compounds for raspberry beer, fruits and spices aroma compounds for peach beer, SPRING-MIX (spices aroma compounds), PF-MIX to impart palate fullness and a long list of customized brand makers (brown beer producer, ginger ale producer, etc.).

All these brand producers can be used to produce low alcohol content (as low as 0.5% v/v) special beers (low alcohol white beer, kriek, etc.).

For more information do not hesitate to visit our website: www.cbsbrew.com

Cheers!

Pablo Alvarez
www.cbsbrew.com

grassrootsvt
03-04-2007, 07:02 AM
I can't decide whether or not this is disturbing...
Yes... It is.
Can i make an imperial stout out of my double ipa?

Pablo Alvarez
03-04-2007, 03:55 PM
Our Maltex HP 20000 (20000 EBC equivalent to 10000 SRM) is a concentrate extract of 100% roasted malt. This concentrated dark malt extract used at a rate of 4 to 8 grams per liter of beer* will allow to get a beer colour of 40 to 80 SRM. This dark malt extract can impart to your IPA the typical roasted malt strong flavours, coffee and chocolate flavours of the stout. This malt extract is highly purified from non-colour matters, like proteins for example, by ultrafiltration. After ultrafiltration refinement, the extract is concentrated by vacuum evaporation. This malt extract can be used directly in finished beer without imparting turbidity. You will find more details at this link: http://www.cbsbrew.com/Fiches/Fiches_PDF/Fiche_Maltex.pdf

You can reach me directly at ales@cbsbrew.com

*Sorry for the European units I am not used to US units

Cheers!

Pablo Alvarez
www.cbsbrew.com

Sauce
03-05-2007, 04:19 AM
ask a sillly question...........;-)


Seriously, while I have no boubt to the quality of the product, to me it does seem to take the"craft" out of brewing.

Though I guess its where you draw that line in the sand for yourself, with fruit extracts, hazelnut essense..ect...

Heh, is using a premixed pupmkin pie spice over your own mix for your pumpkin beer a baby step towards that line?

Butcher Scott
03-05-2007, 06:19 AM
Hmmm... strange. I'm curious to see this demonstrated... will you be at the CBC?

BMOOR
03-05-2007, 06:31 AM
grassrootsvt,
I guess that was a long way to say, "yes, you can!"
Wow-science! :)

grassrootsvt
03-05-2007, 08:05 AM
i'm not sure that pablo detected my sarcasm.
agreed - while i'm sure too that it is a quality product, i'm sticking to brewing beer the old fashioned way... [if you can call using pumps, stainless steel, and steam the "old fashioned way"].

Pablo Alvarez
03-05-2007, 02:31 PM
The classical ways of producing special beers are of course more genuine. Some of these beers will be better than those produced by the "brand final touch" range of products. But some of them will be worse. If the base beer is a good beer you can get good special beers with our products. Our beers are generally well ranked (www.ratebeer.com). As for example, a white beer produced with our brand maker WB-MIX http://www.cbsbrew.com/Fiches/Fiches_PDF/Fiche_WBMix.pdf has won a first price in a special beer competion in England. The white beer produced with WB-MIX in Russia (200 000 Hl/year of white beer produced in a brewery from a very big international group) is not as good as the Hoegaerden witbier but it is better (high drinkability and thirst quenching power) than most of other commercial Belgian white beers.

The brand final touch concept is less romantic but it offers more production flexilibility, better and easier stock management of the different beers and also of the raw materials; it offers better reproducibility of the taste from a batch to another. You can concentrate all you know how and your efforts to produce a very good base beer and you can produce different brands from this unique base beer by adding isomerized hop products and/or hop flavours and /or malt extracts and/or spices extracts, essentials oils, fruit extracts and combinations of these products to get ale, witbier, weissbier, stout, etc.

However I recognize that you lose the authenticity of the old fashioned methods.

We are looking for a representative in the US, a company which is visiting the breweries presenting a range of brewing ingredients. Maybe you could help us?

Cheers!

Pablo Alvarez
www.cbsbrew.com

Beersmith
03-05-2007, 03:03 PM
Scarey indeed. I would think this product is definitely crossing the line from brewing to synthetic manufacturing. Unfortunately, I think we will see more use of such products to create designer beers in the future. I guess it will be up to us craft brewers to inform the public of the virtues of our traditional brewing methods and ingredients.

Maybe in 10 years consumers will just buy a six pack of generic beer in the store and a variety pack of consumer-added "final touch" to "create" their own designer beers. Or maybe self-service industrial beer vending machines where you push a button for a belgian wit or a different one for Imperial Stout and you can watch the ingredients being shot into the pint glass kind of like those coffee/soup vending dispensers.

Pablo, I don't mean to belittle your product line, but most (I hope) of the forum users here are probably philosophically opposed to the use of such methods for our handcrafted beers.

Pablo Alvarez
03-05-2007, 03:53 PM
I agree totally with you "beersmith".

Regards.

Pablo Alvarez
www.cbsbrew.com

aswissbrewer
03-08-2007, 12:07 PM
Our beers are generally well ranked (www.ratebeer.com). As for example, a white beer produced with our brand maker WB-MIX http://www.cbsbrew.com/Fiches/Fiches_PDF/Fiche_WBMix.pdf has won a first price in a special beer competion in England. The white beer produced with WB-MIX in Russia (200 000 Hl/year of white beer produced in a brewery from a very big international group)

:confused: How about naming some of these beers. Maybe I've already tried one and didn't even know it.

:rolleyes: How does "Brand final touch" touch in with the "Reinheitsgebot" ?

Pablo Alvarez
03-08-2007, 04:12 PM
There are several big breweries in Europe which prefer to adjust the colour of their beers with a dark malt extract than with caramel colouring E150 which has to be mentioned on the label. Our dark malt extract Maltex HP which is a pure malt extract (roasted malt) may be used in the countries following the "reinheitsgebot". Our red malt extract may also be used in these countries.

If you use our dark malt extract at rates around 4-8 g/liter of beer you will get the typical roasted malt characteristics of a stout.

In the countries where spices may be added to special beers our "brand final touch" products may be used as they are a mixture of spices CO2 extracts (coriander, ginger, clove, nutmeg, etc.) and essential oils of hops, bitter orange peel, etc . These products are 100% natural. They do not content chemicals or solvents.

Regards.

Pablo Alvarez
www.cbsbrew.com

Jephro
03-08-2007, 04:35 PM
Why not just put it on the soda gun at the bar? Some distilled spirits mixed with carbonated water and a malt like syrup staright from a box. :eek:
mmm.. near beer

Beer Guy
03-09-2007, 11:54 PM
The law of 1516 was essentially implemented not to protect consumers from the scourge of inferior beer ingredients. It's was just another way for a government to ensure that it got it's (un)fair share of income from brewers.
IT WAS A TAX!!! first and foremost not only that it neglects the mention of yeast, which as you would all agree plays a somewhat important role in brewing.

As for CO2 extracted compounds from spices, not to much different a process from say Randy Mosher's use of a solvent (cheap vodka) to extract the same compounds for later incorporation into your brew.

I am not 100% sure of the manufacturers claims however I can take them on face value that they are 100% natural product. I do not see why as brewers there should be a moral high ground approach.

After all if we all become stick in the mud traditionalists lets bury our beer underground in tar lined wooden barrels and burn the brew witches at the stake.

I think we should have more concern over GM foods, pestiscide use on crops, and the list of ingredients found in your can of coke and McDonalds burger.

einhorn
03-10-2007, 02:55 AM
The Reinheitsgebot from 1516 was implemented to protect the ingredients used in bread (wheat, rye, etc.). Barley was then more or less the most commonly grown ingredient available in Germany. You are right in regards to the yeast - it was natural yeast in the air or yeast components that were not cleaned 100% out of the previous batch.

But we digress, I think, in regards to this extremely interesting topic. I think that Grassroots problem was that it seemed very much like "Frankensteining" your beer. Turning an IPA into a stout by simply adding a liter of "Stout Magic" to the sud. I must agree, a little unsettling.

Your comment on adding 100% natural oils & aromas is, in my opinion, correct provided that the manufacturer is telling the truth. There are plenty of posts here on adding bananas, cocunuts, honey and what have you to the sud, so the majority here is certainly not against these types of additives.

Beer Guy
03-10-2007, 04:33 AM
I agree that turning a 12 IBU 10EBC lager into a imperial stout is not in the spirit of brewing (as I feel about it) however from time to time small additions of such 1516 compliant product as the colouring agents are handy when used to lend a helping hand when specialty malt supplies are insufficient to produce the brew by coloured maltz alone.

It is an interesting topic agreed, also I should ease up when reading/posting to threads on the Thomas Hardy Ale. :)

jason.koehler
03-12-2007, 01:21 AM
When he says 'beer base', I don't think he's talking about using a lager base to make an Imperial Stout persay...obviously some beer 'bases' would be better than others for certain styles.

I can see these being something fun to play with at a brewpub, though I can't imagine too many production breweries using these.

Pablo Alvarez
03-12-2007, 11:15 AM
You are right Jason the base beer has a great influence on the final beer.

There are already big breweries using WB-MIX (white beer mix) to produce a Belgian style white beer from a lager with a bitterness lower than 12 BU. 200 000 Hl per year are produced at the moment by this way. The product is being tested in China, Canada and Korea at this moment. The philosophy is to use the same ingredients than with the classical method but at another moment in the process, just before bottling to offer the biggest production flexibility. Coriander and bitter orange peel are traditionally added in the bolilng kettle. Styrian hops (flowery aroma) are also used in classical production. The yeast strains used in white beers processing produce some typical phenolic metabolites like vinylguaiacol among others. Similar compounds to these aroma compounds and to these typical metabolites are also found in some of the specific spices contained in WB MIX. This well balanced mixture has been designed to impart to beer the typical white beer flavour. All the extracts are standardized so it is easier to get a higher taste reproducibility with the final touch method than by the classical one.

The use of our dark malt extract just before bottling offers the same characteristics to beer than if you use roasted malt during mashing but without the inconvenients of wort filtration problems, poor extract yields, low fermentation rates, etc.

Maybe you could find some opportunities to these "brand final touch" range of products in Japan!

If you are interested do not hesitate to contact me.

Cheers!

Pablo Alvarez
www.cbsbrew.com

Butcher Scott
03-12-2007, 12:23 PM
So they make an ale (the Belgian Wit) out of a lager base?

How does this manage to work?

Beer Guy
03-12-2007, 03:56 PM
You can get Ale yeasts that develop a flavour profile like a lager and lagers that when pushed into higher temps become quite ale like in ester production. ertain strains of Carlsburg yeast have a wonderful ale like ester production when pushed above 18 degrees celcius.

Laughing Dog
03-12-2007, 04:59 PM
I wonder what the TTB thinks of this in the US, I bet it will have to go through the approval process then fall under the Malternatives section

Butcher Scott
03-13-2007, 06:10 AM
You can get Ale yeasts that develop a flavour profile like a lager and lagers that when pushed into higher temps become quite ale like in ester production. ertain strains of Carlsburg yeast have a wonderful ale like ester production when pushed above 18 degrees celcius.

That manages to win awards? That's what I read out of this...

Beer Guy
03-13-2007, 05:29 PM
Scott what is it you want from yeast? to walk around and say I brewed an Ale cause the packet said so? or do you brew a beer by carefully assembling raw materials chosen for the profile they impart in your brewhouse using your brewing technique. There are only a couple of thousand yeast strains to choose from each behaves in a slightly different way from it's cousins if you can get a strain of yeast to give the results you are searching for, ale or lager becomes a redundant concept and you are empowered by having a much larger palette to choose from when creating and developing your brew.

Butcher Scott
03-14-2007, 06:21 AM
Beer Guy,

I'm just thinking along the lines of how it manages to stay within Style Guidelines, not that I'm necessarily someone who cares about them. The Belgian Wit's I've tasted don't have any of the "traditional" lager characteristics. So the implication is that a lager has been turned into something that doesn't have lager characteristics with the use of this magic powder. As many before me have said... scary indeed.

Fred Scheer
03-14-2007, 06:43 AM
Beer Guy wrote:

I think we should have more concern over GM foods, pestiscide use on crops, and the list of ingredients found in your can of coke and McDonalds burger.[/QUOTE]

I totally agree with that statement!

Also, did anybody ever looked into the process of producing hop pellets from whole hops? A lot goes into our beloved nectar beer that lot's of brewers don't know.

Cheers

Beer Guy
03-14-2007, 04:06 PM
Beer Guy,

I'm just thinking along the lines of how it manages to stay within Style Guidelines, not that I'm necessarily someone who cares about them. The Belgian Wit's I've tasted don't have any of the "traditional" lager characteristics. So the implication is that a lager has been turned into something that doesn't have lager characteristics with the use of this magic powder. As many before me have said... scary indeed.

Agreed Scott, I got off topic and was on my soapbox regarding yeast.

einhorn
03-17-2007, 12:40 AM
"I think we should have more concern over GM foods, pestiscide use on crops, and the list of ingredients found in your can of coke and McDonalds burger"

An intruguing and deeper topic than most of us realize, indeed.

As "normal" consumers in our local supermarket, we don't always have the decision to choose products that are untreated or manipulated, simply because we don't know which ones are treated and which ones are not. We can choose to buy a Coke or a Big Mac, but we don't have the power to decide what's in these products. When Pedro made his first post in regards to his company and products, he approached a group of people who can decide what lands in the local beer.

YOU are decision-makers, or you have access to these people in your companies. It is YOUR decision to brew according to the methods that you learned and/or to use the suggested products in this thread. Don't get me wrong - I'm not condemning the products - some of them may be justified in a continually evolving market and make sense in a craft brewery, but just remember that in this case it's your decision.

From the "Serenity Prayer": God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference.

Slainte, Prosit & Cheers to you all.

(Speaker descends from soapbox and slowly exits stage right. Spot off.)

Fred Scheer
03-17-2007, 06:14 AM
"From the "Serenity Prayer": God, grant me the Serenity to accept the things I cannot change, Courage to change the things I can, and the Wisdom to know the difference."


AMEN



HI Einhorn:

I will be in Germany next month.
Any chance to see you and your Brewery?

Fred

BigWilley
04-06-2007, 06:33 AM
Something like this could really come in handy at times. At the moment I am in the process of blending a Porter, Pale, and Vienna to make a "Brown Ale". Why didnt I just brew a brown? Long story, but equipment issues have led to me running out of my last special and I need something to tide me over till the hefe is done. When I first started brewing I would have had more trouble with something like this, but many diverse situations and challenges later I am more willing to toe the line. In a perfect brewery (or just one that works) I dont consider such shortcuts, but sh*t happens. By the way, the Brown is pretty good! People on this forum reccomend extracts without getting blasted, whats the difference with what Pablos pushing?

JoeV
05-24-2007, 09:58 PM
you know it I know it we all know it!