Floaties: Protein or yeast?

[Arnoldus]

Ok, so everything seems to be going fine until I have a call from a friend who's picked up one of my beers only to have him ask why there are floaties in it. The beer was packaged less than 2 months, in a bright for 3 weeks, aged for a week. I filter and use a .5 micron cartridge prior to bright. Haven't yet seen it myself but would like to get some ideas ....

Thanks


P.S. is it normal to have some spotty "foam" residue in your bright after packaging? I've read a post that said its normal and its protein.

[gitchegumee]

It's protein. And a bright beer tank may show some light lacing all the way down the sides of the tank, but definitely should not show a ring where it was full. The latter is a sign of foaming in the tank. This is possibly due to excessive carbonation rates, from rough filling of the tank, or from a sudden pressure release. Either way, your beer should foam only once--in a customer's glass. The proteins necessary for foam formation are denatured once they have formed foam. Review your beer transfer, carbonation, and handling procedures to treat your beer gently. Your head will thank you. Good luck!

[Øl-sheik]

Your are seeing yourself, that at this point it is not possible to say what the floaties are and what caused them. But let´s get you on the right track.

2 Big Groups with vast number of possibilities

First:
Biological Cause: for ex. secondary contamination with a "over fermenter" ( Sacharomyces Diastaticus) or contamination by your cultured yeast, due to insufficient attenuation plus unperfect filtration........

Second:
Non-Biological Cause: for ex. permanent unsoluble chill haze, and many other causes from proteins furthermore calciumoxalat...........

so put the cause first into one if these 2 catogories and then trigger them down to the actual cause, this is a problem you can surly solve!!

[ausbrewer1]

Most likely protein, but other contamination issues are possible, yeast is unlikely due to fine filtration size of your cartridge. Would be a good idea to revise your wort boiling and wort clarity during the wort production phase and if you are bottling your product I'd suggest a bit of silica gel prior to filtration to extend its shelf life.

[Arnoldus]

Thanks for the quick responses guys!

I asked my friend what the "floaties" looked like and he said "chunks". If it were protein, would it not be more of a flake? I use kettle finings ( Whirlfoc to be specific - 26 tabs for 13Hl) I also use Becosorb in the aging vessel - 15g/Hl. I stopped dosing Britesorb during filtration as my filter guy said it was probably redundant. If the filter is running perfect, and the .5 micron is working, would that not prevent any yeast - wild or otherwise - from getting through to the bright tank?

Thanks guys

[Øl-sheik]

Nope about 75 % of all beer contamination are secondary, meaning that they where brought into the beer after filtration, so actually during bottling.

[ausbrewer1]

I prefer to dose silica gel(xerogel) just prior to filtration, Im not familar with Becosorb which type are you using? If its the hydrogel version then the permabilty will be higher. Tannic acid and pvpp are other effective treatments.

I have used whirlfoc before and found it to be a very good product, 26 tabs for 13Hls seems to be alot to me, as we did trials and found 1-2 kilos effective for 1000Hls(high gravity), perhaps the tab size has changed sinced I last used it. Too much kettle finings can have adverse reactions.

Dry hopping can also cause problems as well as head space in the bottle.

Lots of possibilities, when you have not actually seen the problem for yourself, but it makes finding a solution more fun

[Enkidu]

What is the temperature of the beer at the .5 micron filter? Just out of curiosity, are you using fermcap at any point in the brewing process? It sounds like you have not actually seen the floaties yourself, but tasting the questionable product can also tell you quite a bit. Just about any contaminates cultured up to the point of "chunks" will have a massive effect on taste perception.

[Gurdeep Singh]

See if there is any change in pH of the beer in the bottles. If you found it posative then surely be your beer is effected due to contamination.

[dick murton]

I have seen oxalate hazes in beer that looked like a snowstorm - large particles. Protein tends to be finer at least initially, then it amy just get thicker, or form a sediment. If the water in your area is soft, and you are not adding enough gypsum / calcium chloride in the mash / kettle, then you may be left with oxalate hazes.

My expereince of biological hazes is of fine hazes, not large flakes

Cheers

[Ramsay Borthwic]

Some hazes form due to mechanical shaking i.e. transported in a truck. This may explain why you are not seeing them. These hazes tend to be protien based and form over time, the agitation causes this process to speed up. You tend to get greater protien levels in darker stronger ales, but they are more visable in lighter ales and lagers. Protien derives from the malt, ckeck your specs and pay attention to homenginity (mixing of malt batches). Somes maltsters get round high malt protien levles by mixing, the problem is the "bad" protiens are still there, just masked in the report by a dose of low protien malt.

[Moonlight]

I would think that if it grew in your bottle enough to be chunky, you'd have extra carbonation. If you add some boiled sugar solution or sterile wort to the bottles and cover but don't recap, it would likely visibly ferment if it was alive.

[Sir Brewsalot]

I did not see in your posts that it was a bottled product with the issue, but maybe I missed that somewhere...

Anyway, if it's a draft product, it could be his beer lines. Are other accounts seeing it, or is your beer just giving his draft lines a good scrubbing?

Cheers,
Scott

[liammckenna]

Is it a membrane cartridge?

If yes, do you do a bubble point integrity test prior to each use?

Pax.

Liam