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Woolsocks
08-22-2007, 10:13 AM
Trying to work up a recipe for my first-ever (except a couple homebrews) fruit beer.

Idea is to put pumpkin in the mash tun. Questions I have for those who've done it:

How much pumpkin do I want for a subtle pumpkin flavor in a 15bbl batch?

How much will stick my lauter?

Do I need to mix the pumpkin with pectinase to help with clarity, stuck lauter, etc.?

Canned pumpkin, fresh, baked, boiled? I assume that some heat needs to be applied to the pumpkin somewhere to break it down a bit, and then it needs to go through a food processor?

How much sugar can I expect to extract per pound of pumpkin?


Thanks in advance --

beertje46
08-22-2007, 10:26 AM
Trying to work up a recipe for my first-ever (except a couple homebrews) fruit beer.

Idea is to put pumpkin in the mash tun. Questions I have for those who've done it:

How much pumpkin do I want for a subtle pumpkin flavor in a 15bbl batch?

How much will stick my lauter?

Do I need to mix the pumpkin with pectinase to help with clarity, stuck lauter, etc.?

Canned pumpkin, fresh, baked, boiled? I assume that some heat needs to be applied to the pumpkin somewhere to break it down a bit, and then it needs to go through a food processor?

How much sugar can I expect to extract per pound of pumpkin?


Thanks in advance --

I wouldn't use any pumpkin meat at all. Use pumpkin pie spice with a light hand in the last 15 minutes of your boil. I've used pumpkin meat, deseeded and roasted until soft enough to scoop, in the mash. I find the initial earthy "squash" flavor turns to something funky fairly quickly.

I would make a big deal out of "I used 150 lbs. of oven roasted organic super pumpkins" ;)

No one will know the difference.

My 2 cents...

Pumpkin Thread (http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=3734&highlight=pumpkin)

ECB
08-22-2007, 01:59 PM
I like the idea of just using the spices. I've always been scared to use actual pumpkin. Which spices and what ratio per barrel have you had success with?

Thanks,

With ther weather being so bad in the North East lately, it seeems that Thanksgiving will be in a few weeks!

Tom

Jephro
08-22-2007, 02:26 PM
I have done it several ways, the most successful was using 2 cases of large cans of pumpkin (per 10 bbls) from our kitchen. I put it directly in the mash while mashing in, i did have an agitator on that MT, otherwise you may want to have some oompa loopa's handy to assist you mashing in. The mash did run slow sometimes, but if you start ever so slowly, run a hot sparge, and cut your bed frequently it's not too bad. I had one runoff take 8 hours, but i did 14 batches that year, and most only ran an extra 1-2 hours.

The spices were boiled into a tea and added to the BBT just before filtration. Filtration could be a bit difficult as well. All said, i hated making it and never drank it, but we sold that stuff hand over fist. Never tried it with just the spices, although it certainly would be much less of a headache.

...and man that mash was heavy

Greenbrewmonkey
08-22-2007, 02:33 PM
Sorry Dave,

I think if you are going to call a beer a "Pumpkin something" it should have some pumpkin in it somewhere. I don't really like it when people call something a pumpkin beer when it is really a pumpkin pie spice flavored beer.

I use a little more than 0.5 lb / gal roasted pumpkin meat in the secondary. I usually like to do firkins this way. It does add quite a bit of sugars. Enough to blow the shive or keystone and shower your cask cellar with pumpkin if you're not careful.

Add some light cinnamon, allspice, ginger and maybe a bit of lactose, and you have the finest "pumpkin pie in a glass" money can buy. Even for folks who swear they don't like pumpkin beer.

You knew I'd have to chime in with "use the real stuff!", didn't you?

Cheers,
Ron
Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

beertje46
08-22-2007, 03:48 PM
You knew I'd have to chime in with "use the real stuff!", didn't you?

Cheers,
Ron
Jolly Pumpkin Artisan Ales

I sure did! I reread all of the posts from the linked thread and you had a load of info. there. And for those who wonder, I am all about the real stuff, except pumpkin. I have made several versions and IMHO squash doesn't have a place in beer. I'm sure there are some good pumpkin beers out there, I just haven't found one yet. {Insert pitch to Ron for free samples of his} I'm also sure there are a bunch that contain no pumpkin only spice. None of us got into this biz to be safe or sane brewers did we.

Alright now ladies and gents, flame on!

Woolsocks
08-22-2007, 06:22 PM
No one has mentioned this yet, so looking for thoughts:

What about steeping the spices in vodka to make an extract and then adding it, by drops, into a pint of the beer to determine the ideal ratio, and then adding that amount to the bright tank and filtering on top of it to mix? Seems like you'd get the most spice flavor for the least amount of spice?

Bill Madden
08-23-2007, 06:44 AM
I am a firm believer in putting pumpkin in pumpkin beer. I thought about just using the spices years ago when I heard another brewer say that was all he did. Then I got to thinking of when that first customer asked "so how much pumpkin in your pumpkin beer?" I could not tell a bold faced lie....

What I did in my 15 bbl days was use 100 pounds of pumpkin and not your average ornamental type. I used a heirloom varietal called Cinderella that I bought from a local farmer. These are cooking pumpkins and they are quite stunning in coloring, brite orange, red and green. They would go on display around the brewhouse to let customers know that the Punkinator was coming. Took the pumpkins, cored them removing the seeds (which I would brine and roast cause the staff and I loved them) then roast the pumpkin meat at 375 F until soft and the sugary juices appeared. The sugar contribution was minimal to the starting gravity of the brew so I just did a 13.5 plato beer and did not concern myself with it. I did all the pumpkin prep the day before the brew and would put the cooked meat in lexans and then lay them in the mashtun and underlet with hot liquor until just covering the lexans. I did this so as not to add cold pumpkin to the mash (it was an infusion system w/o steam jackets). I would mash in and add the mush like pumpkin to the bed slowly, no mixing. Run off seemed like usual, no problem.

For spices try Penzeys. Really nice and fresh blend. I cannot remember the amount used but I did hydrate before adding so it did not clump up and remain as big balls in the trub cone. I never filtered this beer and cannot imagine how bad that might be. We sold a heck of alot of this beer between three restaurants, about 45-60 bbls if I recall correctly.

Cheers,

Bill Madden
Vintage 50 Restaurant and Brew Lounge
Leesburg, Virginia

Jephro
08-23-2007, 09:44 AM
As I mentioned we made a tea that was added to the BBT, it would seem to me that cinnamon and nutmeg are water soluble and boiling would do the trick. On the other hand alcohol can extract oils that hot water will not (i.e. dry hoping).

I can say the beer i just recently made using Kaffir Lime, i liked the flavor profile i got from adding the leaves in secondary more than i did from the ones i added to boil. Maybe the same would hold true with the spices. :cool:

Zucker Bee
09-13-2007, 09:52 AM
What I did in my 15 bbl days was use 100 pounds of pumpkin and not your average ornamental type ....then roast the pumpkin meat at 375 F until soft and the sugary juices appeared.

I dont see how I would cook 100lbs of pumpkin that way. Would I achieve the same results by boiling them?

Zb

nwcw2001
09-13-2007, 10:28 AM
I dont see how I would cook 100lbs of pumpkin that way. Would I achieve the same results by boiling them?

Zb


No you wouldn't. Boiling wont give you the camelization of the sugars to give you that "pumpkin pie" taste. Boiling will convert the starches to sugars but you wont get that great flavor you are looking for. Granted by just boiling, you will get an amazing color, but it will be a flat flavor.

John

Zucker Bee
09-13-2007, 01:57 PM
and that would be by roasting slices or roasting the whole pumpkin and skin it aftarward?

Zb

Bill Madden
09-14-2007, 08:13 AM
I cored the pumpkin to remove the seeds mostly since I like eating them so much. They would probably also make for a real mess. I have only worked in brewpubs my entire career such that access to large convection ovens was always possible. Roasting the pumpkins with skin on and using them in the mash tun was no problem in my single infusion mash/lauter tun. Now I am working on a temperature program system with a separate mash mixer and lauter tun. With all the mash pumping that goes on now (including spent grain removal from the tun) I am thinking a little differently. My farmer has not enough pumpkins ready yet so I have some time to mull it over.......

Woolsocks
09-14-2007, 09:54 AM
How many pumpkins do you need? How much of the weight of the pumpkin is the guts and skin?

Fred Scheer
09-14-2007, 10:58 AM
I did a Pumpkin Ale both ways, i.e. Pumpkin meat and pumkin spiece.
The customers liked the "spiced" one over the "whole Pumkin meat";
what a better judge than the customer who enjoys the nectar.
I have to agree with David Pierce, the squash flavors turned funky, mostly descriped (again, by customers....) as papery, musty............

Fred :)

Zucker Bee
09-14-2007, 12:41 PM
How many pumpkins do you need? How much of the weight of the pumpkin is the guts and skin?


I'm on the same quest here, Woolsocks. I think it's an experimental brew and you have to use your brewing experience and a little bit of guessing. You won't find a definitve answer here, as with everything else -unless you have the chance to taste each and everyone's beer and compare process and ingredient.

Take a pumpkin, skin it and see what's left in therms of weight. Then extrapolate for your batch. From what I figure, 40lbs-50lbs of roasted per bbl should be okay. But... if you're not sure, use less. As for sugar points, take what the pumpkin will give as a "bonus" !

Or go with spices only this time and make small batches in preparation for next year with actual pumpkins..?

Zb

Jephro
09-14-2007, 03:37 PM
From what I figure, 40lbs-50lbs of roasted per bbl should be okay.

From my experience, i think 40-50lbs per bbl is a bit excessive. For a 10bbl batch we used 2 cases of #10 cans(i don't recall the actual weight). When i used actual pumpkins, i used about 20-25 medium sized pumpkins for a 7bbl batch. We gutted and cooked in the convection oven for a couple hours. We then cut them into fourths, skinned them, and mashed them into a goo which was added to the mash.

I love the idea of using fresh products in my beer, but i did not really taste any difference between canned pumpkin and taking the time to cook them down myself.

Larry Horwitz
09-16-2007, 05:38 AM
Word to the spice. The flavor most people associate with Pumpkin beer is the flavor of pumpkin pie...which isn't the flavor of pumpkin. Our chef doesn't even use pumpkin in his pumpkin pie, he uses squash!!! (which I am told is very normal)

buy great spice, use it carefully. If you really want to be authentic, throw a whole pumpkin in the mash. Mostly It'll just take up space.

either way, I hope you sell a ton, we will!

cheers

Lex
09-16-2007, 07:04 AM
If I weren't going to add some form of pumpkin to a beer, I wouldn’t name it as such. In my humble opinion I would call it something like an “autumn ale”, “fall spiced ale”, “barley pie”, ect... I think the customer deserves to get what they pay for (funky or not). This post is starting to remind me of older post regarding the use ale yeast in place of lager.

I worked for a brewery that had very loose morals when it came to the ingredients on the label jiving with what was actually in the bottle. Needless to say I didn’t have a very high esteem for the product, nor my position in said place of employment. I can certainly detect pumpkin in beers, I think it adds mouth feel & some earthiness to the product. I couldn’t drink’em every day, however they are what they are, Seasonal.

I've spiced pumpkin ales 3 different ways: 1. threw spices into the whirlpool, 2. made a tea & added it to the Serving vessel, & finally my preferred method, place spices in cheese cloth add to conditioning tank (most subtle). The following amounts account for the later technique (7 bbl batch)

2.5oz. Cloves, 2.25oz. AllSpice, 30# Cinnamon sticks, & 8oz. Ginger

Avoid canned (GLUE) pumpkin, No filtration, & push through a sparkler @ taps. Good luck & have fun experimenting

ECB
09-17-2007, 07:31 AM
Hi Lex,

Is that 30 pounds? of cinnamon? Or 30 Sticks? Just want to sure.

Thanks,

Tom

BigWilley
09-17-2007, 07:55 AM
I have used a case of canned pumpkin with good results. I just call it Pumpkin Spice Ale so really there would be no false advertising if there was no Pumpkin. Pumpkin Spice=spices used in pumpkin pie. Why not add one can just so you can say there is some in there. Most customers are not going to care how much pumpkin is actually in there anyway as long as it tastes like pumpkin pie. Who out there eats plain pumpkin? Go canned and make it easy on yourself or roast one nice pumpkin and mash it in. Im not sure I would really want to taste the pumpkin anyway. I will still use a case this year for kicks.

Lex
09-17-2007, 01:53 PM
Hi Lex,

Is that 30 pounds? of cinnamon? Or 30 Sticks? Just want to sure.

Thanks,

Tom

Sticks, pounds may be a little too extreme.

3DogsBarking
09-26-2007, 07:04 PM
I've never done my "pumpkin pie" large scale, but have been very pleased with it year after year. After storing for long term, there has never been any funky flavors. However, the spices become more intense after a few months.

I use a base beer that comes out very orange and use a yeast with low attenuation. I also use fresh pumpkin (I'm not positive it contributes more than a couple points), which is cleaned, chopped, and baked until a little soft. The pumpkin is then mashed with the grain. For 1bbl, ~18lb uncleaned pumpkin, 0.25lb fresh, grated ginger, 3 cinnamon sticks (3-4"), 0.5 tbs (15ml volume) powdered nutmeg. They key to every spice beer is moderation.

Zucker Bee
10-08-2007, 07:21 AM
After brewing my pumpkin ale, I join the bandwagon of those saying that mashed pumpkin doesn't taste anything all.

We've cooked pumpkin and add it to a multi-step mash. The meal represented 16% of the grain bill. 4 stucked mashes, bad efficiency and no significant taste. We've used spices at a lower end of the spectrum to let the natural taste come out but finally boost the quantity in order to make that beer "taste something like pumpkin"

Will try to caramelize next year

Zb

Aproveau
10-14-2015, 04:21 PM
We turned a giant 853lb pumpkin into the mash tun and caramelized the inside with a roofing blow torch. We mashed low and long to convert the starch in the pumpkin. We didn't add any spices until secondary to test the pumpkin flavour. I would say it definitely added a little complexity. Check out the video below.
https://youtu.be/lD3hf2jeKuo

TJC
10-15-2015, 06:23 AM
Love the grant...

ibrewforyou
10-30-2015, 04:04 PM
We've been brewing a very successful pumpkin ale for almost 10 years now, here's what i can throw at you.....

12.5bbl batch OG 16.5P
3% lactose 3% brown sugar
3.5# cinnaomon 20 min 3.5# ginger 15 min 7 nutmegs (coarse) 10 min 26g allspice (coarse) 5 min

we use canned now but have roasted cooking pumpkins in the past. No real difference
real pumpkin? what do you think is in the can? artificial pumpkin?

have a fun run-off!