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  • CIP Protocols

    I am polling the masses. For all the years I have been a brewer and the different breweries I have worked for the CIP regime has always been the same (30 minutes caustic @ 140 degrees F, 20 minutes acid @ 85-90 degrees F and sanitizer for 10 minutes or more). This has been handed down from the chemical companies and the supervisors appointed over me. So, what do y'all think?

  • #2
    Hi Fort Fun!
    I've stuck to this protocol for 13 years: (chems from 5-star)
    30 min PBW at temp
    30-25 min Acid 5 at temp
    10 min StarSan at temp.
    This protocol was burned onto my forearm by brewing God, Sanford Jones!

    Long Live Maibock!!!

    Dave
    Glacier Brewing Company
    406-883-2595
    info@glacierbrewing.com

    "who said what now?"

    Comment


    • #3
      FV CIP
      cold rinse
      NaOH 40 minutes 170 degrees
      hot rinse
      cool rinse
      iodaphor 15 minutes 90 degrees
      CO2 purge

      BBT/TDV CIP
      cold rinse
      ClNaOH 40 minutes 140-150 degrees
      hot rinse
      cool rinse
      iodaphor 15 minutes 90 degrees
      CO2 purge

      Comment


      • #4
        Cip

        FV and BBT's

        rinse
        Caustic at 140-150 ~ for 20-25 mins
        rinse
        Peracetic Acid with cool water for 20 mins
        no rinse

        When cleaning FV's we run a loop through HX. With caustic after initial cleaning of FV. Peracetic runs during the entire cip(through HX).

        Tash

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by mr.jay
          FV CIP
          cold rinse
          NaOH 40 minutes 170 degrees
          hot rinse
          cool rinse
          iodaphor 15 minutes 90 degrees
          CO2 purge

          BBT/TDV CIP
          cold rinse
          ClNaOH 40 minutes 140-150 degrees
          hot rinse
          cool rinse
          iodaphor 15 minutes 90 degrees
          CO2 purge
          You really must rinse after iodophor - it is bery easy to get tainted beer with iodine (or for that matter chlorine or bromine residues) - chlorophenolic tastes & aromas. I think you may also find it is a legislative requirement

          Re peracetic acid - this must also be rinsed off in Europe.

          The question is finding sterile water. ClO2 is a pretty good option, and can be used as the sterilant at higher doses as well - so you just have two dose rates, one for plant sterilisation, the other for water sterilisation.

          And if using hot, say 60 C + caustic, some people the need for any form of sterilant.

          Cheers
          dick

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks Dick. I have ClO2 as an option, perhaps I'll use that instead.

            I'll bet 80% (on and off this site) of brewers don't rinse ioda. or peri. after sanitizing (I suppose a poll could firm that theory up). Iodaphor was actually marketed to me as a no-rinse sanitizer. I am sure that I am not the only one. I would like to hear/see more information on this.

            Comment


            • #7
              All of our tanks get the hot rinse after IOD4.
              Joel Halbleib
              Partner / Zymurgist
              Hive and Barrel Meadery
              6302 Old La Grange Rd
              Crestwood, KY
              www.hiveandbarrel.com

              Comment


              • #8
                Iodophor can chew its way through stainless, just like chlorine, particularly if it comes into an acid atmosphere. Many yeasrs ago we used to send beer out in bulk direct to big pubs, and the transport vessels and I think the pub vessels were cleaned with iodophor combined deterent sanitiser. We had contamination more than once when someone looked in a tank and though the brown liquid they were topping up up was beer. Needless to say it went down the drain PDQ. We always rinsed off after that, and pretty soon changed to other sterilants
                dick

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by GlacierBrewing
                  Hi Fort Fun!
                  I've stuck to this protocol for 13 years: (chems from 5-star)
                  30 min PBW at temp
                  30-25 min Acid 5 at temp
                  10 min StarSan at temp.
                  This protocol was burned onto my forearm by brewing God, Sanford Jones!

                  Long Live Maibock!!!

                  Dave
                  Dave,
                  Doesn't the StarSan foam up like hell when you pump it? Or do you mean Saniclean?

                  Cheers,
                  Scott

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sir Brewsalot
                    Dave,
                    Doesn't the StarSan foam up like hell when you pump it? Or do you mean Saniclean?

                    Cheers,
                    Scott
                    Hi Scott,
                    Yes, it does foam quite a bit. That is one of StarSan's pluses. It is made with the surfactant added so the foam sticks to every surface while sanitizing. I've found that if I follow the manufacturer's dilution, I can recirc it effectively in my tanks with no problem.
                    Dave
                    Glacier Brewing Company
                    406-883-2595
                    info@glacierbrewing.com

                    "who said what now?"

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      european solution?

                      How about the European solution? What are ya'll using in Germany in particular (Reihheitsgebot) ? Steam/ heat is my favorite sanitizer and is a common no chem method but how about CIP? I've had enough of caustic etc. What about cleaning pipe lines and in particular tap lines? Pigs?? Thanks for any responses!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dick murton
                        You really must rinse after iodophor - it is bery easy to get tainted beer with iodine (or for that matter chlorine or bromine residues) - chlorophenolic tastes & aromas. I think you may also find it is a legislative requirement

                        Re peracetic acid - this must also be rinsed off in Europe.

                        The question is finding sterile water. ClO2 is a pretty good option, and can be used as the sterilant at higher doses as well - so you just have two dose rates, one for plant sterilisation, the other for water sterilisation.

                        And if using hot, say 60 C + caustic, some people the need for any form of sterilant.

                        Cheers
                        Hi again Dick,
                        how odd, I've always been told that the joy(*) of peracetic is that it is used as a final 'terminal sterilant' - i.e. specifically not being rinsed off before the vessel is used (as it breaks down to a weak acetic acid solution?)

                        As to not needing to use a sterilant after hot caustic, doesn't this depend on what you are rinsing the vessel with - i.e. mains water or bore-hole that's not been UV-treated (or alternative) could introduce some slight contaminant to your spanky clean tank?

                        (*) perhaps "joy" is a word best kept for other matters than brewery vessel CIPing?

                        Hope you're doing OK,
                        cheers
                        MikeMcG

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Apologies Dick, I'm knackered & must have missed your bit about using sterile rinse water, via ClO2, (which I've not come across before, either, like your other point about peracetic needing to be rinsed off in Europe)
                          cheers
                          MikeMcG

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by canyon
                            How about the European solution? What are ya'll using in Germany in particular (Reihheitsgebot) ? Steam/ heat is my favorite sanitizer and is a common no chem method but how about CIP? I've had enough of caustic etc. What about cleaning pipe lines and in particular tap lines? Pigs?? Thanks for any responses!
                            I employ a hot water tank flush. followed with 65C caustic CIP 30 mins or so, and usually a hot water flush as a sanitizer.

                            I hot water flush my hoses and tubing as a sanitizer. Occasionaly I miss the hot water and revert to a P.Acid sanitizer.

                            Occasionally I hit the tanks with an Acid cycle. but I am CIPing with RO water so Im not using high concentrations of alka rinser.

                            On the hot side, Kettle, HE, flash pasteurizer I use and acid - alka-rinse cycle.

                            Of course the chem salesman would like me to use an Alka- Acid-Sanitizer every time. But I dont.
                            www.Lervig.no

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              European solution

                              Originally posted by canyon
                              How about the European solution?
                              Most breweries I know brewing to the Reinheitsgebot CIP with caustic and/or acid and sanitise. A favourite sanitiser is peracetic acid. The tanks must be rinsed with potable water shortly before use. The issue is to make sure the potable water is in order. UV, Chlorine dioxide or other treatments that, with proper use, leave no residues are valid.

                              Another useful, non rinse, sanitiser is Hydrogen Peroxide. After sanisation the H2O2 degrades to water. Here the big issue is safe storage and transport of the sanitiser itself. The H2O2 is a strong oxidiser and therefore a fire hazard.

                              Reinheitsgebot doesn't mean you don't use cleaning chemicals it means you make sure they don't end up in the beer. Just good brewing practice really.

                              Comment

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