I am polling the masses. For all the years I have been a brewer and the different breweries I have worked for the CIP regime has always been the same (30 minutes caustic @ 140 degrees F, 20 minutes acid @ 85-90 degrees F and sanitizer for 10 minutes or more). This has been handed down from the chemical companies and the supervisors appointed over me. So, what do y'all think?
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Hi Fort Fun!
I've stuck to this protocol for 13 years: (chems from 5-star)
30 min PBW at temp
30-25 min Acid 5 at temp
10 min StarSan at temp.
This protocol was burned onto my forearm by brewing God, Sanford Jones!
Long Live Maibock!!!
DaveGlacier Brewing Company
406-883-2595
info@glacierbrewing.com
"who said what now?"
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Cip
FV and BBT's
rinse
Caustic at 140-150 ~ for 20-25 mins
rinse
Peracetic Acid with cool water for 20 mins
no rinse
When cleaning FV's we run a loop through HX. With caustic after initial cleaning of FV. Peracetic runs during the entire cip(through HX).
Tash
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Originally posted by mr.jayFV CIP
cold rinse
NaOH 40 minutes 170 degrees
hot rinse
cool rinse
iodaphor 15 minutes 90 degrees
CO2 purge
BBT/TDV CIP
cold rinse
ClNaOH 40 minutes 140-150 degrees
hot rinse
cool rinse
iodaphor 15 minutes 90 degrees
CO2 purge
Re peracetic acid - this must also be rinsed off in Europe.
The question is finding sterile water. ClO2 is a pretty good option, and can be used as the sterilant at higher doses as well - so you just have two dose rates, one for plant sterilisation, the other for water sterilisation.
And if using hot, say 60 C + caustic, some people the need for any form of sterilant.
Cheersdick
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Thanks Dick. I have ClO2 as an option, perhaps I'll use that instead.
I'll bet 80% (on and off this site) of brewers don't rinse ioda. or peri. after sanitizing (I suppose a poll could firm that theory up). Iodaphor was actually marketed to me as a no-rinse sanitizer. I am sure that I am not the only one. I would like to hear/see more information on this.
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Iodophor can chew its way through stainless, just like chlorine, particularly if it comes into an acid atmosphere. Many yeasrs ago we used to send beer out in bulk direct to big pubs, and the transport vessels and I think the pub vessels were cleaned with iodophor combined deterent sanitiser. We had contamination more than once when someone looked in a tank and though the brown liquid they were topping up up was beer. Needless to say it went down the drain PDQ. We always rinsed off after that, and pretty soon changed to other sterilantsdick
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Originally posted by GlacierBrewingHi Fort Fun!
I've stuck to this protocol for 13 years: (chems from 5-star)
30 min PBW at temp
30-25 min Acid 5 at temp
10 min StarSan at temp.
This protocol was burned onto my forearm by brewing God, Sanford Jones!
Long Live Maibock!!!
Dave
Doesn't the StarSan foam up like hell when you pump it? Or do you mean Saniclean?
Cheers,
Scott
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Originally posted by Sir BrewsalotDave,
Doesn't the StarSan foam up like hell when you pump it? Or do you mean Saniclean?
Cheers,
Scott
Yes, it does foam quite a bit. That is one of StarSan's pluses. It is made with the surfactant added so the foam sticks to every surface while sanitizing. I've found that if I follow the manufacturer's dilution, I can recirc it effectively in my tanks with no problem.
DaveGlacier Brewing Company
406-883-2595
info@glacierbrewing.com
"who said what now?"
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european solution?
How about the European solution? What are ya'll using in Germany in particular (Reihheitsgebot) ? Steam/ heat is my favorite sanitizer and is a common no chem method but how about CIP? I've had enough of caustic etc. What about cleaning pipe lines and in particular tap lines? Pigs?? Thanks for any responses!
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Originally posted by dick murtonYou really must rinse after iodophor - it is bery easy to get tainted beer with iodine (or for that matter chlorine or bromine residues) - chlorophenolic tastes & aromas. I think you may also find it is a legislative requirement
Re peracetic acid - this must also be rinsed off in Europe.
The question is finding sterile water. ClO2 is a pretty good option, and can be used as the sterilant at higher doses as well - so you just have two dose rates, one for plant sterilisation, the other for water sterilisation.
And if using hot, say 60 C + caustic, some people the need for any form of sterilant.
Cheers
how odd, I've always been told that the joy(*) of peracetic is that it is used as a final 'terminal sterilant' - i.e. specifically not being rinsed off before the vessel is used (as it breaks down to a weak acetic acid solution?)
As to not needing to use a sterilant after hot caustic, doesn't this depend on what you are rinsing the vessel with - i.e. mains water or bore-hole that's not been UV-treated (or alternative) could introduce some slight contaminant to your spanky clean tank?
(*) perhaps "joy" is a word best kept for other matters than brewery vessel CIPing?
Hope you're doing OK,
cheers
MikeMcG
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Originally posted by canyonHow about the European solution? What are ya'll using in Germany in particular (Reihheitsgebot) ? Steam/ heat is my favorite sanitizer and is a common no chem method but how about CIP? I've had enough of caustic etc. What about cleaning pipe lines and in particular tap lines? Pigs?? Thanks for any responses!
I hot water flush my hoses and tubing as a sanitizer. Occasionaly I miss the hot water and revert to a P.Acid sanitizer.
Occasionally I hit the tanks with an Acid cycle. but I am CIPing with RO water so Im not using high concentrations of alka rinser.
On the hot side, Kettle, HE, flash pasteurizer I use and acid - alka-rinse cycle.
Of course the chem salesman would like me to use an Alka- Acid-Sanitizer every time. But I dont.www.Lervig.no
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European solution
Originally posted by canyonHow about the European solution?
Another useful, non rinse, sanitiser is Hydrogen Peroxide. After sanisation the H2O2 degrades to water. Here the big issue is safe storage and transport of the sanitiser itself. The H2O2 is a strong oxidiser and therefore a fire hazard.
Reinheitsgebot doesn't mean you don't use cleaning chemicals it means you make sure they don't end up in the beer. Just good brewing practice really.
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