Ammonium Carbonate, corn syrup

[Woolsocks]

You guessed it -- I'm trying to make my own invert syrup using the Mosher method which is all over the internet.

Looking for a source for Ammonium Carbonate, aka Bakers Ammonia, aka Hartshorn.

Also need a source for plain clear corn syrup.

[beertje46]

It appears you can invert sugar without Ammonium Carbonate: Try Wikipedia
For plain, clear corn syrup; try Karo Brand Clear or Bob White Crystal. Karo is available at your local grocery store. I know Bob White Crystal contains a small amount of Vanilla flavoring, not sure of Karo Light. You could make you own corn syrup by adding water, at the rate of 20% by weight, to dry, powdered corn sugar. Then invert with Cream of Tartar or Citric acid per the Wiki article.

Good luck and post your results here!

[JoeV]

Maybe I am confused but here goes...

Karo syrup (or any corn syrup) is already an invert sugar product (glucose and fructose). Invert sugar is the result of the chemical breakdown of sucrose into glucose and fructose. So if you truly want invert sugar syrup start with Sucrose (aka beet or cane or table sugar) Add a small ammount of food grade acid (citric, tartaric, phosphoric, etc.) as a catalyst for the reaction then heat and invert to the desired level.

You can however caramelize corn syrup by heating it. If that is what you are really looking for. This is actually an oxidation of the sugar. Leading to the caramel color and flavor. Then you would have a caramelized invert sugar (think amber belgian candi sugar as opposed to clear)

I am assuming you are wanting to use the ammonium carbonate for making invert syup, I am fairly certain it will not work. It is no longer used as a leavening (at least in the US) and probably no longer on the FDA Food chemical codex any longer (correct me if I am wrong). If you are planning on using it as a yeast nutrient use Di-ammonium-phosphate instead.

[Woolsocks]

Maybe I'm confused too! Actually there's no maybe about it.

Yes, the idea is to get some "real" amber invert sugar as opposed to the expensive, hard-to-use, poor-quality, possibly artificially colored rocks I've used before.

Randy Mosher has published the following instructions for making said amber candi syrup:

Just take a pound of plain corn syrup (make sure it's the kind without vanilla added) and heat it over medium heat in a heavy saucepan with 9 grams of ammonium carbonate (sold as leavening in Middle Eastern markets). I have also gotten good results with diammonium phosphate yeast nutrient. It will boil, and eventually start to darken. Every now and then remove a drop or two and drip it onto aluminum foil to cool, then taste. Stop as soon as the desired color is reached, and carefully add water to mix it back to the original consistency. You can also caramelize honey using this same method.

I'm not sure the purpose of the ammonium carbonate, given that it's already invert sugar. Perhaps some chemistry-minded person does?

[JoeV]

I think Randy Is wrong....

I wish I knew the guy so I could ask him where he gets this ammonium carbonate idea from. I would go with the Citric acid (or other food grade acid), Sucrose (cane/beet sugar) and heat method. You don't need much acid it is just a catalyst and not used up or converted in the reaction. It just reduces the time and temperature needed to invert the sucrose. The only drawback of making your own is you have less control over consistency. Unless you have an optical device to measure the level of inversion or you product and a spectrophotometer to measure the color (level of caremelization). I doubt anyone will know the difference from batch to batch though as long as you try to make the invert sugar the same every time.
Good luck and if anyone knows what Randy Mosher is talking about with the ammonium carbonate please clue me in!!!

[DevonK]

Dextrose versus Belgian Candi Sugar

Does anyone know if using Dextrose (pure Glucose) instead of Belgian Candi sugar (invert) will have any affect on the flavor of the final product? We want to add it in the kettle and there is a major difference in price. Belgian sugar is almost 4 times more expensive. Is it possible to do a mixture of the two?

Any help on this would be much appreciated - thanks!

[jarviw]

my understanding is that Belgian candi sugar is about adding the flavoring impurity into end product (while also adding fermentable without making a barley wine). Obviously you have nothing to invert for glucose. For extra flavoring, you probably should try caramelize it... otherwise you will just be producing pure ethanol and other fermentation byproduct.

It really shouldn't matter whether it's glucose or glucose/fructose mix. Not in the fermented end product I don't think. (glucose is converted into fructose during glycolysis anyways).

But it will certainly change the compositions of wort sugars -- glucose shock that interfere with the yeast ability to ferment maltose. But honestly I don't think it's going to be much different with adding glucose or glucose/fructose mix.