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  • whole vs. pellet hops

    i am sure this topic has been covered before, so if anyone wants to point me to the thread instead of responding, that would be fine.

    i have brewed my entire career with pellet hops. given the current shortage, i am talking to local farmers about growing hops for me and considering growing hops myself. from the research i've done, pelletizing hops will be financially out of the question.

    what do i need to know about brewing with whole hops? it seems a hopback for the last hop addition makes sense. Do i need to modify the brew kettle in any way for bittering hops? are kettle and whirlpool cleaning procedures different or more difficult?

    also, if anyone out there is processing there own hops, i could use some ideas for a way to dry/kiln say tens or hundreds of pounds at a time and an easy way to tell when the hops are dried (8% moisture?)

    any input would be greatly appreciated.

    cheers,
    sam

  • #2
    grow some for me too!

    I feel your pain. I have been considering growing my own too. Or making beers without hops at all (gasp!). So I will pass on what I know...and maybe what I think I know!


    I have only used leaf hops once commercially.

    The whirlpool didn't seem to work quite as well.

    Hop flower petals are a real pain to get out of the heat exchanger...(dissasembly required). Next time i am using inline filter.

    Utilization is somewhat less than for pellets.

    But hey this is how they did it before pelletizers were invented right?

    As far as the moisture level goes I would guess they have some fancy instrument that does it at the hop lab. You could do it the lower budget way of taking a small sample and getting it's mass with an analytical balance, dry in an oven with some dessicant until completely dry. Then get the mass after drying. The difference by weight is your percent moisture.

    The real trick is getting the AA analysis done. You would have to send that off to a lab.

    Good luck!

    Comment


    • #3
      Hiya' Sam,
      In the past, I've used whole leaf hops in the boil by utilizing a draw-stringed cloth bag (think tea bag) in the boil and secured via a leash to the brew kettle opening. This eliminated the mess whole leaves can do in the kettle, piping and heat exchanger.
      Luck to ya' from our side of the mountains.

      Prost!
      Dave
      Glacier Brewing Company
      406-883-2595
      info@glacierbrewing.com

      "who said what now?"

      Comment


      • #4
        It would depend upon the knockout capacity of your kettle as to whether or not this would be feasible; a screen can be fabricated to fit over the outlet of the kettle. 1/8" diameter holes are about right for straining the hole hops out of the wort. This alleviates the need for whirlpooling and facilitates trub extraction as the trub gets caught on the hop flowers... bang... clear wort. The question becomes 'how big a pain in the ass will it be to remove the hops?' Depends on the batch size. You'll have to spray a lot of cold water over the hops to cool them then get down in the kettle and haul them out bucket by bucket. Time-wise you may not see a whole lot of difference since you are cutting off 30-40 minutes of kettle time by not waiting on the whirlpool and rest.. effort-wise, obviously, there would be a huge difference. You would just have to judge how difficult it would be.

        I've done this in a brewery where our knockout was one bbl at a time... after knockout, we put on some heavy gloves and scooped the hops out of the kettle. I've never tried it on a larger scale, but it would certainly work.. would I WANT to climb down in a 15 bbl kettle and do it.. hahaha NO... but it would work.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by JoeV
          The real trick is getting the AA analysis done. You would have to send that off to a lab.

          Good luck!

          I think Ralph Olson was said in an interview that they (Hop Union) do AA testing for $25-30.

          Comment


          • #6
            If your hopback is sized appropriately then it should be able double as a strainer and handle the entire hop load. We use a closed 3.5 bbl vessel with mash screens as a hopback/hop strainer. It works pretty well for our 10bbl brewhouse.

            Cheers

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hopdo
              I am a Polish hops importer and distributor in Midwest. Believe me guys, not always the Polish way is the stupid way as perceived by some of the Hillbilly in Midwest and some other parts and in Polish jokes. Hops storage and preserving freshness is a very important and critical part of our business.
              Cheers, JV
              Hops & Extracts LLC
              hops.extracts@gmail.com
              Hey-- we call someone a hillbilly out here when we like 'em. Hopdo: thanks for the great post
              Hop Powder might just be the way

              Question-- what happens when you freeze fresh hops? I know a farmer who is freezing his hops fresh from the bine and still testing them a year later for degradation.

              Comment


              • #8
                whole hops

                Whole hops are easy! Depending on the shape of your kettle bottom, you can whirlpool in the kettle, then draw out wort through a hopback - you'll need a hopback (which is just a small open tank with a screen) to catch hops and trub no matter what, but whirlpooling keeps the hops in the kettle. You can also dryhop by adding hops directly to the hopback. Cleaning the hops out of the kettle is a bit tricky - we have a second large (3") outflow valve specifically for this, and just pour cool water (from the heat exchanger) back into the kettle to rinse them out.

                As for moisture levels, you can either test them (there are lots of moisture meters out there, all grain farmers use them) or use your hands: bend a cone and see if the strig breaks or not. If the cone shatters entirely, it's too dry. If it bends and doesn't break, it's not dry enough.

                Freezing hops is great to cut down on any decay and preserve the oils. If freezing wet hops, I'd be careful to use a whole bag immediately, otherwise they'll just rot on thawing. I don't think it's a great idea, but I'd be very interested in the outcome of your farmers' trials!
                Crannóg Ales
                Canada's Certified Organic, on-farm microbrewery
                www.crannogales.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  Whole Hops are easy

                  From my experience whole hops are just as easy to use as pellets, and tend to offer a softer flavor and aroma to your beers. Pellets are slightly simpler, but can add a harshness to your beers.

                  As for using them in the kettle, you can buy large hop socks from any home brew supply store, they can usually hold about 4-5 lbs of whole leaf. Just throw them in the boil and make sure they get fully submerged in your wort. U can use a pole or just affix them to the opening of the kettle. Then at the end let them whirlpool on top of the wort. During your rest after whirlpool, submerge them to the bottom of the kettle for the rest of the knockout.

                  You won't have to build a screen, or pull apart your heat exchanger. Then at end of knockout, you just lift the bag out of the kettle, untie and dump in to a garbage can. That simple.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I am also thinking of growing my own hops (I live in a good area for this). My plan is to approach some of the Hop processors here and see if a deal can be worked out where they buy my hops and I buy them back processed. At least then you have guarantee of supply and am essentially paying a processing fee. Not sure how it is going to work out but never die wondering.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Whole hoppy head games

                      Originally posted by Gael
                      Whole hops are easy!.............
                      Hey folks,
                      Just forked our 7bbl system off the flatbed Sunday!

                      The hop issues have complicated our decision making process a tad.
                      Here is what we have set ourselves up with so far.
                      We have enough T-90 Magnums and Galenas to bitter our beers through the first year. (projected 200 bbl's) We payed top dollar but as everyone knows the hop market is ugly right now and we didn't want to dilly dally and end up with no hops at all. We also went for the pellets for bittering because the fellow we purchased our system from, Erik, whom will be assisting on commissioning for the first couple brew sessions felt that for optimum hop utilization and bittering consistency from batch to batch and maximum labor efficiency pellets would be the best fit for bittering. More on that later.

                      So conceptually at this point we will add our high alpha T-90's at the start of the boil.

                      Aromas as we all know are also very difficult to acquire on the spot market right now, and Im sure to no ones surprise 08 contracting for startups at Hop Union is next to nil. Spot market is a unknown until harvest but we have been led to believe extremely limited. Of the varieties we want 09' contracting offers nothing. 2010 is the only window where half of the varieties we are requesting are available. No surprise for us. Because of this we forged non-traditional relationships months ago and have confirmation that all of the varieties we want will be available to us after harvest. These will be whole hops.

                      So...we (partner an myself) have often considered socking our hops. Just as you mention Mbraunworth and Glacier. Erik whom is assisting with commissioning suggested to avoid this method if we wanted to maximize the hop utilization and bittering consistency. 1000 ways to skin a kitty I imagine. It sure seems like the simplest way to proceed (socking). Our pricey pellet purchase has sent us down a specific road it appears.
                      Gael,mooneyray, Bham and JoeV I think Erik has lead us closer to your method. Except of course that we plan to use pellets for first additions and whole hops for aroma.

                      Our kettle is fabricated to whirlpool. The bottom is slightly dished.
                      Here is what the three of us me, my partner and Erik have discussed. After a 5 to 10 ten minute whirlpool we would dump the hot wort through a newly fabricated 4" ball valve in the kettle into a horizontal open FV with the finishing whole hops waiting for their firey bath.
                      At that point we would go with the hop flower, trub filter method into the HE to make up for a weak whirlpool.
                      Three dairy style 7bbl jacketed FV's were included with this system. With our projected BBL for the first year (200) and in light of this whole hop issue we are planning on using one of the FV's as our "hop back".

                      On top of any comments so far, ideas on a filter screen for the output from the FV/hopback into the heat exchanger is greatly appreciated.

                      thx a ton,
                      matt g
                      Last edited by SRB; 08-20-2008, 11:56 AM.

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                      • #12
                        Whole hops

                        Hello all,
                        As far as the whole cone hops go, please feel free to contact me. I am working to make sure that the smaller brewiers have hops available to them.
                        We are currently picking Fuggle, Mt. Rainer, and Tet's with many more coming soon.
                        Our hops are grown in Oregon and we have plenty to go around. As far as pricing, please give me a call. I think you will like what you hear. Planning on shipping in the next couple of weeks.


                        Cheers,

                        Jeff
                        503-910-8198

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