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  • Caustic Tank or lack there of...

    Hello, I am new to commercial brewing and just started in a small operation that is actually an oyster bar brewpub. The set up is a 4BBL system. the last brewer told me he used the HLT as his caustic tank when he CIPed the FVs. As we need other hot water to rinse and then mix acid wash, and rinse again i am not sure how he did this. Over the weekend I used the brite tank to mix our solution and then pumped from there to CIP the FVs. Other than having a separate caustic tank is there any other issues (or solutions) with using the brite tank to mix our caustic and acid? I guess if we have a beer carbonating we can not caustic or sanitize. i guess we could also use out FV to Mix and then pump to other FVs

  • #2
    I don't believe there is any call for caustic tank in small brewery. Why not mix in the fermenter you are washing? Don't make this harder than you need to.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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    • #3
      What gitchegumee said. We are a 4 bbl brewery and fill 8 gallon caustic solution in our conical fermenter to clean. We try to clean as many at a time as we can. Our brites take 10 gallons so it doesn't run the pump dry.

      Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

      Jon Sheldon
      Owner/Brewer/Chief Floor Mopper
      Bugnutty Brewing Company
      www.bugnutty.com

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      • #4
        Awesome...Thanks guys.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Krausen89 View Post
          Hello, I am new to commercial brewing and just started in a small operation that is actually an oyster bar brewpub. The set up is a 4BBL system. the last brewer told me he used the HLT as his caustic tank when he CIPed the FVs. As we need other hot water to rinse and then mix acid wash, and rinse again i am not sure how he did this. Over the weekend I used the brite tank to mix our solution and then pumped from there to CIP the FVs. Other than having a separate caustic tank is there any other issues (or solutions) with using the brite tank to mix our caustic and acid? I guess if we have a beer carbonating we can not caustic or sanitize. i guess we could also use out FV to Mix and then pump to other FVs
          If you don't have an independent CIP system, of course we can mix caustic or acid from fermenter directly. After finished caustic or acid washing, we can pump it to next fermenter. The HLT will be used to supply hot water. The cleaning process can be finished well.

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          • #6
            Dear Derrick,

            as mentioned above, blend your cleaning solution directly in the FV which needs to be cleaned. Bring the hot water from the HLT and cautiously add the correct amount of caustic, then circulate that solution through your spray ball. This is very common. Using a different type of your equipment to blend the cleaning solution makes no sense.

            Also please use always proper PPE.

            Please feel free to reach out if you have more questions.
            Zee Loeffler
            888-484-6248 (US & Canada only)
            www.loefflerchemical.com
            Oliver.meinhold@vincitgroup.com

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            • #7
              Step 1; Add 3/4th bbl water to fermenter with manway loosely closed; ensure majority of co2 is out of tank before proceeding or proceed with a vent.

              Step 2; add 1/2 gallon caustic to fermenter via manway door than re-loosely-tighten (verify this with your chemical provider, 1/2 gallon could be overkill or underkill depending on your strength)

              Step 3; prime your pump, set to 30-55hz depending on your tank pressure abilities. Higher the better. Hit those walls with force; don’t just cascade down them.

              Step 4; set a 30 minute timer, than rinse promptly through sprayball.

              Step 5; if you have weird ports, run a cycle through those. A 4bbl racking arm is very different from a 300bbl racking arm. At 4bbl, 3/4BBL hot water should completely submerge your RA; but do it
              pay attention to this.

              Never use a tank as a chemi-tank; those are called skids and the people that pay for them, regret them.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Derrick View Post

                If you don't have an independent CIP system, of course we can mix caustic or acid from fermenter directly. After finished caustic or acid washing, we can pump it to next fermenter. The HLT will be used to supply hot water. The cleaning process can be finished well.
                I was under the impression that caustic should only be used once because once it's soiled it's less effective and it cools down significantly during CIP

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                • #9
                  Caustic may be used repeatedly. No reason to throw it away after a single use unless it's spent. It will get spent faster if you don't pre-clean your tanks well, or if you use very little detergent. Caustic solutions get very foamy when they are spent via process of saponification. Cool caustic clean fine, it just takes longer. Time, temperature, turbulence and concentration are your main variables. You must always vent your tank to remove CO2, otherwise you risk imploding your tank when the CO2 reacts with NaOH and leaves a vacuum. It happens more frequently than is discussed. Sprayballs are designed for distribution of cleaning solutions; not for impingement cleaning which would require a different type of apparatus. Something like a Toftejorg rotary jet is used for this. Brinks make sense if you are cleaning multiple tanks per day. Beware of suppliers that try to sell you one with a small brewery. Better to grow into a brink rather than start with one.
                  Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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                  • #10
                    I fully agree with the post of the gitchgumee. Depending on the fouling you can boost your caustic by adding a hydrogen peroxide booster to the caustic.
                    Zee Loeffler
                    888-484-6248 (US & Canada only)
                    www.loefflerchemical.com
                    Oliver.meinhold@vincitgroup.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oliver@loeffler View Post
                      I fully agree with the post of the gitchgumee. Depending on the fouling you can boost your caustic by adding a hydrogen peroxide booster to the caustic.
                      How do you test for fouling?

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                      • #12
                        You will notice the caustic takes longer to clean a tank and the cleaning solution will foam when "spent". Consult with your chemical supplier, but most cleaning solutions have an efficacy test. I'd imagine with most caustic-based cleaners you would use a titration technique--it's what I use with acid detergents. pH is not a very useful parameter with regards to efficacy. Although NaOH is relatively inexpensive, the added chemicals used to build the formulation makes it a bit more costly. Not so much for a small brewery, but with more & larger tanks cleaned more frequently, it adds up fast. Not to mention the time, water and energy use and the accompanying sewerage associated with fresh-every-time caustic batches. I've also found that peroxide really boosts the cleaning power of caustic--especially in kettle cleaning. We used to make our own detergents long ago, adding sodium gluconate and bleach to a caustic solution. I'd recommend against that and buy a quality detergent that has been proven in your particular environment.
                        Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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