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Converting lautering under gravity to VFD controlled wort pumping

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  • Amit
    replied
    Rakes

    Rakes is a problem, especially when we sparge, they spin too fast and so we have to vorlauf again to achieve the clarity of first running and allow time again for the bed to settle. I am guessing increasing the gap will increase the bed settling rate and we might not have to wait for long. VFD might change the rake problem. I lautered without using the rakes and saw a fall in gravity. Since then I have been using rakes but only during mash transfer and batch sparging not during lautering as most others do. I thought of moving the rakes up but unfortunately the pt 100 probe rod sticks in right above the rakes so had to rule that out.

    Is there any measurement for conditioned milling? How much water to grain should be used? If milling goes all right I am hoping to reduce the lauter time by almost an hour or two at the best.
    Last edited by Amit; 08-31-2013, 02:15 AM.

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  • Ted Briggs
    replied
    if your willing to retrofit, id think about adding monometer tubes so you can visually see the bed suction.

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  • AnthonyB
    replied
    I am guessing that the rakes in a system this size were intended to help empty the lautertun.

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  • timbro81
    replied
    I agree with Linus, adding suction will only compact the grain bed faster. 6-8 hours is an eternity. Like some other have mentioned you should look at your grain (to include milling) and your processes. Use rakes sparingly.

    Tim Brophy
    Marshall Brewing

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  • lhall
    replied
    I think increased suction would be the wrong way to go. It will only compact the grain bed further. Why not try first analyzing your grist? Are you getting too much flour? Try opening the mill gap a little and see if your lauter times improve. Try slowing or stopping the rakes also.

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  • Amit
    replied
    Originally posted by SouthHouseBrew View Post
    If I'm understanding correctly, you have one pump that is connected to a grant but don't have a line for vorlauf back into the LT?

    If this is correct - just add a vorlauf line to your current set-up. You should pull from a grant whether you're vorlaufing or running off to the kettle. Removing the grant (or going with a smaller sieve size) will not increase lauter times or efficiency - quite the opposite, actually.

    I think I understand that your problem is that your runoff is slow, so you have trouble keeping a level in the grant, allowing the pump to operate properly. This is an issue with runoff, not the pump. The pump may be a bit oversized if you only have one all-purpose unit, but you can probably still use it for this application if you fix your lauter flow and cut back on the outlet valve (and especially with a VFD).

    You said you recently changed your mill gap - did you increase or decrease the gap?
    No vorlauf line nor any line to pump into the kettle at present. But even if I do cut back on the outlet valve with a VFD, I doubt if the pump can provide sufficient suction through the grant. The issue is the slow runoff like you mentioned, however I want to bypass the grant by providing direct suction through a vfd controlled pump. This I am hoping will reduce our lautering time along with clarity since at the moment we can go upto 6-8 hours just lautering away!
    Increasing flow rates and clarity is what I am looking to achieve. Since I have no experience in using VFD controlled lautering so I'm not sure as to whether suction will make a significant difference for which I am hoping.
    Last edited by Amit; 08-27-2013, 05:09 AM.

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  • SouthHouseBrew
    replied
    If I'm understanding correctly, you have one pump that is connected to a grant but don't have a line for vorlauf back into the LT?

    If this is correct - just add a vorlauf line to your current set-up. You should pull from a grant whether you're vorlaufing or running off to the kettle. Removing the grant (or going with a smaller sieve size) will not increase lauter times or efficiency - quite the opposite, actually.

    I think I understand that your problem is that your runoff is slow, so you have trouble keeping a level in the grant, allowing the pump to operate properly. This is an issue with runoff, not the pump. The pump may be a bit oversized if you only have one all-purpose unit, but you can probably still use it for this application if you fix your lauter flow and cut back on the outlet valve (and especially with a VFD).

    You said you recently changed your mill gap - did you increase or decrease the gap?

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  • Amit
    replied
    no vfd

    Oh yes and there are currently no VFD's so our new PLC under construction will have 2 VFD's one for the rakes and one for the pump

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  • Amit
    replied
    Pics for clarity

    Thanks for the reply Phillip But I am not planning to use the same VFD for both the rakes and pump. Slight misunderstanding. Here check the pics..
    This brewery has only a tap given for vorlauf from the lauter grant..We have to collect it in buckets and recirculate..However I want to change this and make the lautering and vorlauf all done by our common pump which is used to transfer mash and wort, sparging, transfer etc..

    The red line on the pic is the new pipe line I plan to weld, by controlling the motor speed and creating sufficient suction, I can pump it directly in the lauter tun for vorlauf and then into the kettle instead of collecting it by gravity in the whirlpool.

    Think this is possible?

    P.S Excuse the bad paint job

    Click image for larger version

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  • gitchegumee
    replied
    Greetings! If I understand your problem and proposed solution correctly, you want your grant transfer pump to take a direct suction from the mash underscreen and run this pump motor from an existing VFD for rakes? In a quick answer, no you cannot. As far as I know, you may only run the same motors with similar duties in arrays for control with a single VFD. You would be much better off with separate VFD control for rake and for pump. What are your lauter tun and mash specifics? You should be able to get 90 minute lauters with no problem on an all-grain mash.

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  • Converting lautering under gravity to VFD controlled wort pumping

    Hello Everyone,

    I have been doing a lot of work around our lautering as it takes ages to lauter- We have fixed all the possible issues without changing the equipment like maintain 78C mash out temperatures in Lauter tun to not allow viscosity to increase. Have adjusted the mill down to 1.47 mm using feeler gauge to get the right crush with conditioning. However not much has changed. I was wondering whether I could change this filter bed into a smaller sieve size. And weld my lautering pipe to the inlet of the transfer pump with VFD control for both pump and the rakes. (Note Rakes are non adjustable) and use it for vorlauf and directly transfer wort into kettle. Currently I collect my wort into the whirlpool as it a 2 vessel (lauter and whirlpool combined) 5 hl brewhouse. Will this be possible?

    I will attach a picture as soon as I can
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