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  • The IDD Squire Plus 2 thread

    Seems like a lot of us a getting/using these keg washer/filler these days, so I thought we ought to have a thread for them.

    Please share your experiences, problems, solutions, whatever.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  • #2
    Installation

    Our Squire P2 with weight-controlled filler arrived a couple of weeks ago, and after days of bickering about where to put it, I've finally started getting it set up and ready to go. Almost....

    First thing I noticed was the manual: a 400 page "dead" PDF without page numbers in the index or live links to pages. Real useful, folks. Most of the manual is spec sheets for pumps, valves, etc. that I could DL from the 'net if I needed them. The actual instructions are scattered around in various sections interleaved with the spec sheets, and something mysterious called "Control Philosophy" (sounds scary). So it's up to me (and, hopefully, some of you all) to suss it all out.

    Fortunately, this is not a terribly complicated machine to hook up. We'll see when it comes to using it.

    So, on to the set-up.

    I started with the scale for the fill-by-weight option:

    Click image for larger version

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    I leveled the scale with an accurate 2' level. The bulls-eye bubble just wasn't precise enough for me. To keep the scale from moving and going out of level, I made some simple brackets to hold the feet in place:

    Click image for larger version

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    I immediately discovered that IDD isn't aware that brewery floors are not level by design. The feet on the scale have less than 1/2" of adjustment, so I used a stack of SS washers to get the critter level (sorry about those lousy welds--I guess I need to sharpen some tungstens).

    Above the feet of the scale are what appear to be leveling screws--THEY ARE NOT! These are apparently the over-travel stops for the scale and don't want to be touched!

    Next, I leveled the washer/filler itself. Again, IDD seems a bit unclear about our floors, as the casters have absolutely no adjustment. Besides, I don't want the machine moving, so off came the casters to be replaced by 1/2" X 3 1/2" carriage bolts:

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    I chose the 3 1/2" length so I could get my handy scissor-jack out (if you don't have one of these around the brewery, get one--they're unbelievably handy). I haven't bothered with brackets for the feet yet, as it's pretty danged hard to move the machine as it is. We'll see.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 06-24-2015, 04:34 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

    Comment


    • #3
      Here's the machine leveled, with utilities (except electrical) attached:



      Our air and CO2 lines are pitifully under-sized (1/2" copper about 100' from the source), so I used two 29 gal used compressor reservoirs ($50 ea) as high-pressure surge tanks. The silver tank on the right is CO2 (waiting for a reg, see below), the black one on the left is air. The air/gas is fed into the tank at our 125 psi line pressure, then goes through high-flow Rego regulators to the machine for the low-pressure, high-flow/volume purges. Since the purges are short and the times in between are fairly long, these surge tanks should give us the needed volume and flow.

      The copper "tower" atop the rinse water valve is a "knock-stopper". It's a closed 1" pipe full of air to dampen the water-hammer from the valve closing. Water-hammer can and will destroy things pretty quickly. These are available commercially, but my DIY ones work just fine as long as they're mounted vertically.

      Here's a detail of the air surge tank with regulators:



      The reg on the right is the high-pressure, low-flow for the control air, the big reg on the left is the purge air, a 1" Rego regulator. The purge reg is plumbed to the purge valve with 3/4" braided vinyl line. Both regs are mounted with plenty of clearance for re-building the regs in place--nothing lasts forever.

      If you're planning on hooking the air and gas up with anything other than hose and clamps, forget it. IDD terminates the valve inputs with hose barbs instead of threads.

      I'm currently waiting for the electrician (believe it or not) and for our new bulk CO2 system to be installed so I can re-purpose a second 1" Rego reg from our old CO2 system--those big regs ain't cheap!

      A note--I've spent much too much time unclogging things clogged with tiny scraps of Teflon pipe thread tape (especially solenoid valves). I'll never use it again. I used Loc-Tite 542 thread lock/sealant for everything. I've been using it for everything around the brewery for over a year now, and I love the stuff--and I just finished off the first 50 ml bottle I bought--it goes a long, long way.
      Last edited by TGTimm; 06-24-2015, 04:33 PM. Reason: New keyboard, old fingers
      Timm Turrentine

      Brewerywright,
      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
      Enterprise. Oregon.

      Comment


      • #4
        I have the larger unit, the miniking steam. Yep, the manual is not the best, make sure you get the right amount of CO2 and air into the unit. Otherwise you will have issues.

        My favourite part is the descending turner, not more lifiting!
        Head Brewer Rocks Brewing Co.
        Sydney, Aust
        scotty@rocksbrewing.com

        Comment


        • #5
          Thanks, Scotty.

          I'm hoping the big air reservoirs will do the trick--the tech (Oscar) at IDD seems to think they'll work. The electrician finished up yesterday and my last low-pressure, high-flow regulator should be here tomorrow and then I can start figuring out how the critter works!

          Ours has the fill-by-weight option, so there's no keg lifting involved (of full kegs, anyway). The roller conveyor on the scale is about 1" higher than a pallet, so it's easy to slide the full keg off and onto a pallet (we tried this part out and it's pretty easy).
          Timm Turrentine

          Brewerywright,
          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
          Enterprise. Oregon.

          Comment


          • #6
            We just bought a used Squire 2 Plus from another brewery here in Minneapolis. It's less than a year old. We'll be picking it up next Wednesday. Any words of advice regarding electrical or CO2 requirements? Right now, we have a 4-way manifold in our packaging area that feeds brites, our WGE canning line, and our manual 4-head DME keg filler washer. Our gas hoses are 3/8" ID. Will we need a dedicated CO2 source with a separate regulator and tubing for the IDD? Could I just install a gas flowmeter at the IDD gas inlet to verify that we're getting the right volume of gas to the machine?

            Also, how many amps does the IDD draw?

            Matt
            Last edited by Matt@Bauhaus; 07-03-2015, 07:28 AM.

            Comment


            • #7
              As for the gas service, I won't know until later today or tomorrow, when I get my missing regulator and start trying the critter out.

              The electrical requirements are 35 amp, 208-240 V, single-phase. Those heating elements in the tank soak up some juice. Be sure to check the label and be sure the voltage is proper for your service. I'll take a look in a bit and see if there's a transformer for the control power that may need to be wired for a given voltage.
              Timm Turrentine

              Brewerywright,
              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
              Enterprise. Oregon.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Matt@Bauhaus View Post
                We just bought a used Squire 2 Plus from another brewery here in Minneapolis. It's less than a year old. We'll be picking it up next Wednesday. Any words of advice regarding electrical or CO2 requirements? Right now, we have a 4-way manifold in our packaging area that feeds brites, our WGE canning line, and our manual 4-head DME keg filler washer. Our gas hoses are 3/8" ID. Will we need a dedicated CO2 source with a separate regulator and tubing for the IDD? Could I just install a gas flowmeter at the IDD gas inlet to verify that we're getting the right volume of gas to the machine?

                Also, how many amps does the IDD draw?

                Matt
                You will likely need, and almost certainly be better off with, a buffer tank for both CO2 and air. We use an old air compressor tank that is fed by a 3/8" hose and goes into a 1" high flow regulator. The tank was cheap on craigslist. The regulator was not too expensive, from automationdirect.com I think. Make sure there is a one way after the regulator as we had issues with liquid going backwards and messing up the regulator. Probably worth having a spare around just in case.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Yep. Got the buffer tanks--see photo above. Thanks for the heads-up on the check valves--I think I have a couple of 1" Ball-in-cones around somewhere. I'll also add a back-flow preventer on the main water line as soon as it gets here.

                  Matt--I just checked the control and HV boxes on the machine. It looks like the only thing that's voltage critical is the heating element. Be sure that matches your voltage to within ~10%. A 208V element will pop breakers on 240V, while the other way around, it just won't heat too well. Both the pumps are 208-240V, so no problem there. The low-voltage controls are run off a wide-input power supply, so that's good, too.
                  Last edited by TGTimm; 07-03-2015, 10:35 AM.
                  Timm Turrentine

                  Brewerywright,
                  Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                  Enterprise. Oregon.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Now it's my turn to ask some questions.

                    We have the automatic-dosing option for the acid and caustic dosing. The manual gives me numbers in %V/V. What detergent tank pHs are you all running for these (since that's something I can easily measure)?

                    What concentration should I have in my caustic and acid reservoirs to feed the dosers?

                    TIA--
                    Timm Turrentine

                    Brewerywright,
                    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                    Enterprise. Oregon.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Timm, the photos/attachments in the 3rd post of this thread are not working.

                      We use Ultra Niter (acid) and X-Puma from Birko for cleaning kegs. We keep it between 1 - 1.5 pH. We do not use the automatic dosing system.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by DowneastCider View Post
                        Timm, the photos/attachments in the 3rd post of this thread are not working.

                        We use Ultra Niter (acid) and X-Puma from Birko for cleaning kegs. We keep it between 1 - 1.5 pH. We do not use the automatic dosing system.
                        Downeaster--click on the attachments and the pics will come up. This forum has some problems with photos (hey, Admin, why not just enable the IMG tag--you won't have to store photos, and I can get the orientations right).

                        Do you not have the dosers, or do you not use them? If not, why?

                        So, that's the acid. What about the caustic? We alternate the two.
                        Last edited by TGTimm; 07-03-2015, 01:55 PM.
                        Timm Turrentine

                        Brewerywright,
                        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                        Enterprise. Oregon.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          When I click on the attachment link it says: Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator

                          We have the doser but it is easy enough to just dump in X liters of ultra niter and Y ml of X-Puma every time we fill it. I have never trusted venturi valves. They never seem to inject the same ratio twice. It may have something to do with our very inconsistent water pressure.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The link to the attachment works fine when I click on it, but the idea was that the picture should be imbedded in the post. I guess it's time to contact the admin.

                            That's a good point with the varying water pressure/flow. When we open up the big 2" line for the HX, the water in the rest of the brewery drops to a trickle.

                            Besides, we're currently out of liquid caustic.
                            Timm Turrentine

                            Brewerywright,
                            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                            Enterprise. Oregon.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Just ran my first test wash!

                              Average of six cycles (Sequence 1): 2:05

                              What are the two cycles on the switch on the side of the control box? The manual is mud clear on this.

                              First impressions:

                              While IDD says the detergent tank can be filled with cold water, you'd best do this a couple of hours before using the washer. 30 min. running the heater brought the 50F water to 85F. We'll be using 150-180F water for our initial fill.

                              Speaking of heater elements, there does not seem to be any run-dry prevention for the elements. This could easily be disastrous.

                              The surge tanks seem to work great. I'm getting no significant drop in pressure during the purges.

                              Add a drain line to the "Wash Drain" pipe. That is, unless you enjoy being sprayed with sour beer and rinse water--that thing vents violently. I had to cut about 8" off the bottom of the pipe to accommodate a gentle bend in the hose. I plumbed the hose directly to a drain, and anchored it well--especially during the initial purge, that hose would whip around if left loose.

                              I'll start experimenting with the fill-by-weight function next week, but we're good to go on the washing part.
                              Last edited by TGTimm; 07-03-2015, 04:05 PM.
                              Timm Turrentine

                              Brewerywright,
                              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                              Enterprise. Oregon.

                              Comment

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