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Best European substitute for US 2-row

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  • nickfl
    replied
    This is interesting, because as an American brewer I feel that generally anyone over here who is using north American 2-row over European malts is doing it because it is cheaper, not for the flavor. I use golden promise for our pale, hoppy beers and I would never consider US/Canadian two row to be a superior option.

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  • scotts
    replied
    I'm very happy with British extra low color pale ale malt as my base malt in my American pale ales and IPAs, at around 1.7 lovibond from various maltsters. However, the British pound has been soaring against the Euro lately to the point that I'm reconsidering. Dingman's, Castle, Weyermann don't offer low color pale ale malt, and their regular pale ale is too dark at 3.5-4.5 L. They all have pilsner malt of course, but I've heard those malts will leave more protein haze which is a concern since we don't filter our beer. Just wondering what other continental Euro-zone base malts I could consider until the Pound offers some relief, or if my concerns about pilsner malt is unwarranted.

    PS, I'll still be sucking it up and buying British malts for stouts and other appropriate styles.

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  • ChxBchBrews
    replied
    Originally posted by HopSteady View Post
    Appreciate the info. Your grain bill suggestion sounds very interesting and is not something I have tried. As I am trying to minimise breadiness I am tempted to leave off the MO in your suggestion and do something like 45% UK pale, 45% pils (weyermann premium pilsner or bohemian pilsner) and 10% dextrose.

    Thanks again.
    Makes sense. I hope it gets you in the right neighborhood.

    Cheers!
    Drew

    Leave a comment:


  • hallertau2000
    replied
    I would give Simpsons Extra Pale Ale malt a try 1.3- 2.1L

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  • HopSteady
    replied
    Originally posted by ChxBchBrews View Post
    I have done a number of test batches with some of these malts--M.O., Golden Promise, and Pearl--so I can give you some feedback anyway.

    The Golden Promise is a beautiful malt and to me it has a lot less of the bread crust/toast flavor that Maris Otter has, but even mashed fairly low (150F) it left a VERY sweet malty flavor and seemed to give a moderately thick mouthfeel. Those are generally not what I think of with a US IPA.

    Pearl is still more bready/malty than US 2-row, but much less than either M.O. or Golden Promise. It also gave much less mouthfeel and sweetness than either of the others, while still leaving more body than a US version.

    I know there are some West Coast IPA brewers who are using a base malt mixture of US 2-row (40-50%) with European Pilsner and Maris Otter (15-20% each) to great acclaim. I've made three test batches that way (IPA, US Pale Ale, and Session IPA) and find that the Pils malt provides a hint of sweet maltiness & the MO a bit of toast flavor that round out the 2-row. They have been among the crowd favorites that I've tested.

    Without access to US 2-row, I might try 40% British extra pale malt, 40% Pils, and 10-15% MO, along with 5-10% sugar (to thin the body out), mash low, and see what that gets you. (Edit: those are % of the "base malt" before the crystal/carapils). I'm new to the pro game, though, so you may wish to wait for more experienced brewers to reply.

    Cheers!
    Drew
    Appreciate the info. Your grain bill suggestion sounds very interesting and is not something I have tried. As I am trying to minimise breadiness I am tempted to leave off the MO in your suggestion and do something like 45% UK pale, 45% pils (weyermann premium pilsner or bohemian pilsner) and 10% dextrose.

    Thanks again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Thirsty_Monk
    replied
    I know that Weyernmann German Pilsner is pretty clean. They also have Pale Ale malt but I never used it.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChxBchBrews
    replied
    I have done a number of test batches with some of these malts--M.O., Golden Promise, and Pearl--so I can give you some feedback anyway.

    The Golden Promise is a beautiful malt and to me it has a lot less of the bread crust/toast flavor that Maris Otter has, but even mashed fairly low (150F) it left a VERY sweet malty flavor and seemed to give a moderately thick mouthfeel. Those are generally not what I think of with a US IPA.

    Pearl is still more bready/malty than US 2-row, but much less than either M.O. or Golden Promise. It also gave much less mouthfeel and sweetness than either of the others, while still leaving more body than a US version.

    I know there are some West Coast IPA brewers who are using a base malt mixture of US 2-row (40-50%) with European Pilsner and Maris Otter (15-20% each) to great acclaim. I've made three test batches that way (IPA, US Pale Ale, and Session IPA) and find that the Pils malt provides a hint of sweet maltiness & the MO a bit of toast flavor that round out the 2-row. They have been among the crowd favorites that I've tested.

    Without access to US 2-row, I might try 40% British extra pale malt, 40% Pils, and 10-15% MO, along with 5-10% sugar (to thin the body out), mash low, and see what that gets you. (Edit: those are % of the "base malt" before the crystal/carapils). I'm new to the pro game, though, so you may wish to wait for more experienced brewers to reply.

    Cheers!
    Drew

    Leave a comment:


  • HopSteady
    started a topic Best European substitute for US 2-row

    Best European substitute for US 2-row

    I am trying to brew US style IPA over in Europe and I am having a really hard time finding a base malt which is as neutral and clean as US 2-row (which not available over here).

    There are the German and English Lager/Pilsner and Ale malts, however these are respectively more grainy and bready than US 2-row. Also, US 2-row seems to fall in between them in terms of color, being between 1.8-2.1L, whereas the pilsner malts are between 1.5-2.1L and Ale malts between 2.3-3.0L - not that big of a deal though.

    I have done a lot of testing with german pilsner (at around 90% of grist with 5% carapils and 5% crystal 40L) however the character is just not as clean and sweet as US IPAs with sort of grainy/starchy aromas which overpower some of the more the subtle hop aromas and flavors.

    I have done a batch with 100% Marris Otter but this was far too bready/toasty/nutty and not suitable.

    My next efforts will be focussing on the lighter UK pale ale malts like the following:

    Golden Promise (2.3-3.0°L) - Golden Promise is a traditional Pale Ale Malt grown in Scotland. It produces sweet, mellow wort and is excellent for both brewing and distilling.
    Halcyon (2.3-3.0°L) - Halcyon is a barley variety that was bred from the Maris Otter and Sargent barley varieties. It tends to produce a less sweet wort than Maris Otter.
    Optic (2.3-3.0°L) - Optic is a barley variety widely grown in the United Kingdom. Our customers have been impressed with its highly aromatic qualities.
    Pearl (2.3-3.0°L) - A traditional English barley variety known for its slightly bready flavor.

    Optic seems interesting, which I have just ordered a bag of.

    I know brewdog uses an extra pale Marris Otter malt but I do not get the clean malt backbone on their IPA's that I find in US IPA's.

    Has anyone else gone through such an exercise and been able to find a suitable substitute?
    Last edited by HopSteady; 07-16-2014, 06:00 AM.
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