Gelatinisation

[liammckenna]

So, from what I understand from this note, is that it would be more efficient to mash at 60c-70c, then drop to 40c where the b-glucanase reduces the largest amount possible of b-glucan?

Beside being a pain to deal with during sparge, does the reduction of b-glucan affects taste or mouthfeel (significantly)?

Zb

Should not significantly affect mouthfeel or taste.

When I know B-glucan to be a potential issue but don't need a protein rest, I mash in at 40C and immediately start ramping to conversion temp as soon as the first grist hits the water. Doesn't take much time. Grist needs to be hydrated but not gelatinised for the endogenous B-glucanase.

Timely. Apparently we can all expect quite a bump in B-glucans in North American malts this year.

Regards,

Pax.

Liam

[Zucker Bee]

Rye malt / beta glucan rest

Watch out with this, a beta-glucan rest might not be need with well modified malt, but the enzyme that frees beta-glucans (beta-glucan solubilase) remains active at higher temperatures, with an optimum at ~60°C and inactivation at ~70°C. With the beta-glucanase having an optimum at ~40°C and inactivation at ~60°C there is always going to be beta-glucans released that are not broken down.

So, from what I understand from this note, is that it would be more efficient to mash at 60c-70c, then drop to 40c where the b-glucanase reduces the largest amount possible of b-glucan?

Beside being a pain to deal with during sparge, does the reduction of b-glucan affects taste or mouthfeel (significantly)?

Zb

[Piko]

So, here is what I am thinking, with dry milled grain, the recommended loading of your lauter tun is ~140-175 kg/(m^2) (numbers from Technology Brewing and Malting, W. Kunze). If my calculations are correct, you have about 240 kg/(m^2). With the large mash size plus the amount of darker malts being used, I think this could lead to a slow filter. I would try to make the same beer, but cut down on the mash size and be sure to mill the darker malts mixed in with the pale.

I'm not pro, but first thing that came to my mind is exactly what Roger wrote. Also have in mind that roasted malts have more fragile husks and milling can "help" to your problems...

[Roger Greene]

A short Betaglucan rest can be good if using undermodified malts/raw grains, but letting it go on too long will lead to viscosity problems with runoff/lautering. A betaglucanase rest will help free the starch for saccharification (with under modified malts) but will also 'free' beta glucans which can bring havoc to your runoff.

Watch out with this, a beta-glucan rest might not be need with well modified malt, but the enzyme that frees beta-glucans (beta-glucan solubilase) remains active at higher temperatures, with an optimum at ~60°C and inactivation at ~70°C. With the beta-glucanase having an optimum at ~40°C and inactivation at ~60°C there is always going to be beta-glucans released that are not broken down.

[liammckenna]

Not knowing your grist load, I might suggest a few things.

Water - ensure sufficient calcium.

Mashing temps.

I would avoid beta glucanase rest (~100 F).

A short Betaglucan rest can be good if using undermodified malts/raw grains, but letting it go on too long will lead to viscosity problems with runoff/lautering. A betaglucanase rest will help free the starch for saccharification (with under modified malts) but will also 'free' beta glucans which can bring havoc to your runoff.

I would suggest (if you can step mash) a twenty minute protein rest at 48-50 C (~120F) followed by a 45 minute saccharification rest at 63-68C (~145-155)(or until iodine -ve). Temp of saccharification rest will depend on the type of mouthfeel/body you are looking for.

All of this, of course, depends on your use of well modified malts.

Good luck.

Pax.

Liam

[bubone]

No Liam,

I don't use raw barley, hell no !
That will give big problem.
First I used raw oatflakes, never again !

Kees

[sbradt]

imp stout

We have found that with our larger mash bills, particularly those with roast malts, it helps to use the rakes as little as possible. It is also possible that you could try milling your roasted malts a little coarser as they tend to shatter and create more fines in the mash that could be slowing the runoff

[liammckenna]

Hi Roger,
I use for Imp Stout 200 kg pale and for the barley 275.

Kees

Sorry. I don't understand.

Are you using 275 kg of raw barley in your mash for this beer?

Trying to help...

Pax.

Liam

[Roger Greene]

So, here is what I am thinking, with dry milled grain, the recommended loading of your lauter tun is ~140-175 kg/(m^2) (numbers from Technology Brewing and Malting, W. Kunze). If my calculations are correct, you have about 240 kg/(m^2). With the large mash size plus the amount of darker malts being used, I think this could lead to a slow filter. I would try to make the same beer, but cut down on the mash size and be sure to mill the darker malts mixed in with the pale.

[bubone]

Hi Roger,

I think the diameter of the lauterton is 1.30 m, and for the big bers I brew to small. I use for Imp Stout 200 kg pale and for the barley 275.
Other malts in the Imp stout are, bisquit, caramel 120, caramel 300 and alot off carafa spec 1 & 2

Kees

[Roger Greene]

Hey Kees,

In your imperial stout, how much pale malt do you use? Also, when you make your barley wine, do you use the same amount of malt (~700 lbs)? With a grist load that big, you could be overloading your lauter tun. To much of a pressure difference (to thick of a bed) can plug it up. Any chance you could measure the diameter of the lauter tun?

[bubone]

Hi Lou,

My Thermometers are good, I mash in with rakes, and have no spots in the masch. The strike temp is between 104 > 149 °F I have tried everything.
The IRS is my haviest beer and with that beer I got the problem.
When I brewing a Barley wine, just with pale and some caramel malts, there no problem.

Cheers,
Kees

[BrewinLou]

Have you calibrated your thermometers lately? How are you mixing the mash, rakes or by hand? What is your strike temp? Could you have hot spots in your mash? Imp Stout is a large mash, do you have any other beers that have as large of a mash?

[bubone]

When I'am brewing a Imp Stout ( 26 pl OG ) or other heavy stout, I have allways problems with gelatinisation when filtering.
All the other beerstyle's no problem, only the IRS
I maisch 716 pounds in 212 gallons and my lauterton is to small.
I use a lot off caramelmalts en dark malts.
I used every kind maischschedule, nothing helps
Have somebody idea what i can do ??

Cheers,
Kees