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  • Fill Levels 3003A Bier

    Hey folks,

    I was hoping to shed some light on a subject I've been curious about, or if it's been discussed maybe direct me to the thread page. What are the best methods to control fill levels? I suspect it mostly has to do with valve stem length, but there are other factors involved I'm sure. Here's a list of what settings I use:

    Counter pressure: 3.2 bar
    Leveling pressure: 3.0 bar
    Opening spouts pressure: 3.0 bar
    Diaphragm pump: 2.0 bar
    Vacuum tank: -0.8 bar
    Brite tank head pressure: 10-12 psi


    Bowl pressure during bottling usually sticks right around 2.5 bar.

    I've been noticing our fill levels in 12oz bottles have been a little lower lately, but it's not because of foam over. We've been getting that nice crown of bubbles at the top before capping, but appears to be no beer loss, so I'm attributing this to one or more settings of pressure. Anyway, if you want to chime in with what may or may not be different from what I have listed, I'd appreciate it.

    Thanks!

    Adam T.
    Zipline Brewing Co.
    Lincoln, NE

    Comment


    • Fill levels should be dependent on the fill tube length. When the machine hits the leveling cam, the fill tube connects to the inside of the bowl, and the leveling pressure pushes the beer in the bottle back into the bowl until it hits the bottom of the fill tube. If everything else is good, this should be the only thing determining fill level.

      We have to custom-cut our fill tubes to match our 12 oz Heritage bottles. If you have to do this, get the cut ends polished as well as possible to avoid foaming problems. And check the fill tubes for tightness--we once lost one in a bottle and had to open a few dozen cases before we found it!
      Timm Turrentine

      Brewerywright,
      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
      Enterprise. Oregon.

      Comment


      • Dissolved Oxygen

        Hey folks, me again.

        I was hoping to get some insight into why I'm getting around a 60-80 ppb jump in our Dissolved Oxygen readings. They're as low as 5 ppb immediately before the product infeed valve, and as high as 90 ppb when we check the DO reading in the bottles post-crowning. Is this a matter of changing all seals in each of the fill head valves? Or could it be more indicative of some seals and o-rings more internal that I may not be aware of? I did just change the vacuum o-rings directly under the bowl where the vacuum tube connects because it wasn't pulling the requisite -.8 bar. While this has improved fill consistency, it did not help with the DO issue.

        Any thoughts? Thanks!

        Adam T.
        Zipline Brewing Co.
        Lincoln, NE

        Comment


        • Fun story!

          We called Prospero for some parts and someone in the background there yells "Which machine do they have?!?"

          "They got The Beater!"

          sadface n junk
          eatdrinkandbemerry
          Jon Hill, Brewer
          Atlantic Brewing Co
          jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

          Comment


          • Headaches with GAI Prospero = Useless

            Hi All.

            I'm Pat i work at Brew DR Kombucha in Tualitin Oregon. We own a GAI FM BIER 5031. Very temperamental machine.

            In the couple of months I've been on board as maintenance tech I had the rinser apart to try solve rinse fails ultimately just cleaning and replacing seals, I've pulled the capper apart to solve bottles lifting with the head and tripping sensors. I now face the filler randomly having no fills on different stations and also holding onto bottles and carrying to the station ready to pick up a new bottle which knocks both into the center of the filler and the pedastools crush the bottles inside.

            Like i said very temperamental. I've noticed alot of comments revolving around the 3000 series to which we own one of those as well at our headquarters in SE PDX. I am trying to apply some of the tips I have learned here to both.

            What I would like to know is if anyone has a guide to what they do in regards to scheduled maintenance. How many months/hours between shutdowns. By shutdowns I saying stop the machine and take it apart for new seals, o rings, the works. Is there any must dos while I have the machine apart? Rough estimates of seals or o rings or parts we should have on hand. (I have read Timm Turrentines guide on page six of this thread which was helpful thanks Timm for your countless imput)

            We bottle everyday from 5am to midnight so the machine is getting hammered and i want to be proactive not reactive. We are very new and we aren't trying to invent the wheel so why not hit up the guys who've been there done that.

            If anyone is willing to host me for a day at their brewery so I can come and meet you and see exactly what your talking about and pick your brains on how you operate I would be even more appreciative. Our VP was very receptive to this idea and we make Kombucha not beer so dont worry I wont steal your secrets haha. Id even bring some cases of Kombucha for your staff to try and some to take home.

            If you want to reach out to me I can be contacted here or at pat@brewdrkombucha.com

            Thanks for the read.

            Pat Coles
            Maintenance Tech
            Brew Dr Kombucha
            Portland Oregon
            brewdrkombucha.com

            Comment


            • Changing label backing colors?

              Hey all. We usually run BOPP labels on a white backing. For a limited edition run of fancy labels, we went over to a cream laid stock and it is on a brown backing. The labeler (6080E) does not like this and keeps on throwing an error on station 2, size and place. It'll let us size it, but the placing function won't work. It also likes to say roll breakage when it isn't broken. Anyone have any insight?

              Thanks,
              Jazz Aldrich
              Great Basin Brewing Co.

              Comment


              • This is a thread about a GAI bottling machine.

                I have no idea what kind of labeler you're using. 6080 means nothing to me without a brand.

                Maybe start a new thread, and be specific?
                Timm Turrentine

                Brewerywright,
                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                Enterprise. Oregon.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                  This is a thread about a GAI bottling machine.

                  I have no idea what kind of labeler you're using. 6080 means nothing to me without a brand.

                  Maybe start a new thread, and be specific?
                  GAI labeler, 6080E, bought as a package from Prospero with our filler, a GAI 5003A Bier. Was hoping someone else would have the same combination, as it seems to be the standard labeler if you buy a packaged setup from Prospero.
                  Last edited by reno-jazz; 10-16-2017, 12:54 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Help with GAI 1201 Filler

                    Anyone know if the GAI 1201 Filler can handle filling cider that is carbonated? Asking because Im looking at having a winery that has this machine bottle for me. Hard to find any info online.

                    -Ryan

                    Comment


                    • I have no experience with that model. I'd call Prospero and ask them--they're the NA distributors for GAI.
                      Timm Turrentine

                      Brewerywright,
                      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                      Enterprise. Oregon.

                      Comment


                      • Pressure through leveling tube

                        Hi
                        Weve been running into a very odd problem that tech support has no solution for, wondering if anyone has seen it before...
                        On the 5003A system we are finding that every 16-20 bottles one of the bottles gets pressure shot into it from the leveling tube. This causes a foam over and low fill. It is not happening on consistent fill head either which makes it very confusing. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated,
                        Thanks!
                        Adam

                        Comment


                        • Adam--I'm not familiar with the particulars of the 5003, but if it works at all like the 3003, I might have some ideas.

                          I'd think this is a pressure problem in the bowl. How big is the line that feeds the CO2 to the bowl? How long? If the bowl pressure is less than that in the bottle, you will get exactly this happening when the leveling circuit opens.

                          Another place to look is the leveling pressure. The filler head should be introducing a shot of CO2 into the bottle when the leveling circuit opens to raise the pressure in the bottle above that in the bowl. I think the 3003 manual recommends that the leveling pressure be 1/2 bar above that of the bowl.

                          Since these are "surge" uses, calling for a fair amount of gas in a short period of time, a good supply of CO2 is needed. You might consider using a surge tank immediately before the secondary regulator going to the bottling machine. This is simply a pressure vessel--I use 30 gallon air compressor tanks--that is hooked up to the high-pressure CO2 main. I run our main at 125 psi. A high-flow secondary regulator reduces the pressure to that specified for the bottler through a 3/4" line. This allows the CO2 system to keep up with large surge demands.
                          Timm Turrentine

                          Brewerywright,
                          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                          Enterprise. Oregon.

                          Comment


                          • More crowner replacements

                            Time for a tune-up on the crowner again, and this time, I need some new parts.

                            The body of the lower unit of the crowner has worn to the point it no longer holds the crown-pusher plunger straight. The spring has lost some spring over the last few years.

                            Click image for larger version

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                            The old parts are on the right. The over-all-length of the new spring is almost exactly 5 1/2". As you can see, the old one is a good 1/2" shorter.
                            Timm Turrentine

                            Brewerywright,
                            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                            Enterprise. Oregon.

                            Comment


                            • Bowl stack seal replacement

                              It's that time. In fact, it's far past that time.

                              We had a couple of GAI techs out a couple of weeks ago to give the ol' GAI 3003A Bier a good going over and tell me what needs fixing. They found very little that needs attention, but one of the things was the rotating stack seals on the bowl. They said these seals should be replaced yearly. This will be the first time I've replaced them since we installed the machine in '07.

                              There are two sets of these, one below and one above the bowl. I'll be replacing the seals on the top stack today.

                              Here it is, in all its glory:

                              Click image for larger version

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                              The parts diagram is pg 30012-46601. The parts you'll need are:

                              GAI LRC-6250/60 X 10
                              OR 112 X 3
                              OR 4325 X 1

                              The tools you'll need:

                              Click image for larger version

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                              14, 17, 19mm end wrenches. The adjustable wrench is for the one large--22mm?--nut I don't have an end wrench for. 6mm Allen wrench--I prefer the socket style w/ratchet. Carbide scribe and Sharpie for marking.

                              First, label and remove the three white PE lines from the top of the stack and set them out of the way. The ports they attach to are labeled L, G and A.

                              Next, remove the three inner Allen-head bolts from the top of the stack:

                              Click image for larger version

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                              That inner part is free to rotate, which is why these must be removed first. then remove the other three.

                              Now you'll pull the big nut that holds the stabilizing bar, and you can then remove the top of the stack.

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Note that those holes must line back up with the proper ports on the top. I made a witness mark with my scribe to help me get it right. You'll also see where the three OR 112 o-rings go. Toss them.

                              Now pull the metal lines that attach to the rings. The A and L lines may be left loose in their fittings so you don't have to label them, but the G line comes off.

                              The top two rings of the stack can now be pulled off. Have fun with this. Twisting helps, as does cursing.

                              The bottom ring is a PITA to get off. Some kind of puller would be handy, but I don't see how you'd secure it. I used some screwdrivers to pry it up from the top of the bowl. It will come off with the center shaft.

                              Now, strip all the old rubber and get everything as clean as possible. I gave the parts about 30 minutes in our big ultra-sonic cleaner with caustic lye, then a short soak with phos acid. After that, I went to it with 4-0 (0000) steel wool until everything was clean and shiny. Pay especial attention to the areas of the center shaft where the seals run--it needs to be as smooth and shiny as possible.

                              The center shaft, after cleaning:

                              Click image for larger version

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                              Out of attachments for this post. Continued....
                              Last edited by TGTimm; 02-20-2019, 04:07 PM.
                              Timm Turrentine

                              Brewerywright,
                              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                              Enterprise. Oregon.

                              Comment


                              • Stack seals, cont.

                                The first thing to go back on the center shaft is the white cylindrical bushing:

                                Click image for larger version

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                                Next is the G ring. This ring has a single, large o-ring--OR 4325--on the base

                                Click image for larger version

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                                and a single set of seals in the top.

                                The seals comprise an o-ring and a plastic ring:

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                                When assembled, each seal will look like this:

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                                There are two sets of those, and you can't get them on the shaft assembled like this, of course.

                                Ignore this picture. I can't seem to delete a picture from a post.

                                Click image for larger version

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                                And go to the nest post where I'll continue.
                                Last edited by TGTimm; 02-20-2019, 04:18 PM.
                                Timm Turrentine

                                Brewerywright,
                                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                                Enterprise. Oregon.

                                Comment

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