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  • dead vacuum motor

    Anyone have a lead on an Elmo-F 2B V2? NY Prospero only has a 50hz one...

    If you search ebay you get a lot of Sesame Street stuff...
    eatdrinkandbemerry
    Jon Hill, Brewer
    Atlantic Brewing Co
    jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

    Comment


    • What is that part? Which machine is it for?
      Timm Turrentine

      Brewerywright,
      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
      Enterprise. Oregon.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
        What is that part? Which machine is it for?
        Vacuum pump. Pump seems ok but motor is fried.
        eatdrinkandbemerry
        Jon Hill, Brewer
        Atlantic Brewing Co
        jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

        Comment


        • Here's the parts diagram, and I think contact info:

          Shoot. I can't post it. Must be too large.

          PM me your E-mail and I'll send you the PDF.

          BTW: Did you check all electrical connections to the pump? At one point, I thought the motor was gone, but it turned out to be a corroded bus bar inside the electrical box on the pump.
          Timm Turrentine

          Brewerywright,
          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
          Enterprise. Oregon.

          Comment


          • Air in the bowl? GAI 3003A Bier

            Howdy, folks.

            We've been monitoring our bottle DO with a Hach Orbisphere 3100 for the last year or so. We started noticing rising bottle DOs a while back, so I rebuilt/replaced all seals connected to the bowl, the beer lines, and the vacuum lines.

            We are now seeing bottle DOs that increase during the run. At the start of the run, we're seeing acceptable levels of >10 ppb. By the end of the run--4-6 hours--we're off the top with levels in the hundreds of ppb.

            I rigged up a device that lets us directly sample the gas in the bowl headspace (after eliminating any other sources of O2), and, sure enough, the O2 level in the bowl headspace rises during the run, eventually getting to near-atmospheric levels.

            Knowing this, we can play with our bright tank/bowl pressures occasionally, forcing the headspace gas out of the bowl and replacing it with pure CO2, which keeps our bottle DOs under control, but is a PITA.

            I've tried everything I can think of--and everything our brewers can think of--to find and eliminate the source of the air. We've checked the CO2 line where it enters the machine--no O2. We have no O2 pick-up in the beer where it enters the machine.

            I've checked every point of the bowl and seals with leak detector under pressure and during operation. No leaks.

            Our vacuum pump is pulling about 25 inHg of vacuum, and I can clearly see the dampness from the rinser flash off at the first pre-evac.

            Thinking it might be an air leak from the top stack seal, I sealed the bowl and left the pedestal air on for a week. No increase in bowl pressure.

            We push our beer from the bright to the bottler using CO2 pressure, so no suspect pump seals. The only pump connected to the bottler is the vacuum pump.

            We use ClO2 in our rinser water at about 1-2 ppm at the rinser.

            The only time that gas from outside the bowl or the CO2 main should enter the bowl is during the equal-pressure fill, when the gas, which SHOULD be 100% CO2, is being displaced from the bottle to the bowl by the beer filling the bottle. But looking at the fill cycle, the bottle should be at or above the bowl--and far above ambient--pressure at all times until it hits the snifter, at which time the bottle should be completely isolated from the bowl.

            I'm pretty well befuddled by this and would greatly appreciate any suggestions!
            Last edited by TGTimm; 11-13-2019, 12:17 PM.
            Timm Turrentine

            Brewerywright,
            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
            Enterprise. Oregon.

            Comment


            • HNC_1
              HNC_1 commented
              Editing a comment
              Hey Timm! Had to wait a long time for my account to be approved but wanted to know if you found an answer to this.

              Sometime within the last 6 months I began getting involved more with our 3031FM unit... which was also the same time we got our first DO meter. Experienced what sounds like the same thing as you, DO on the beer going into the machine was low, the initial readings weren't that bad, but we noticed an accumulative increase through out the packaging run. During a visit by the local Prospero tech we fixed a couple of the rinse/purge heads that weren't working which seemed to deal with the worst of it.

          • Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
            We are now seeing bottle DOs that increase during the run. At the start of the run, we're seeing acceptable levels of >10 ppb. By the end of the run--4-6 hours--we're off the top with levels in the hundreds of ppb.

            I rigged up a device that lets us directly sample the gas in the bowl headspace (after eliminating any other sources of O2), and, sure enough, the O2 level in the bowl headspace rises during the run, eventually getting to near-atmospheric levels.


            The only time that gas from outside the bowl or the CO2 main should enter the bowl is during the equal-pressure fill, when the gas, which SHOULD be 100% CO2, is being displaced from the bottle to the bowl by the beer filling the bottle. But looking at the fill cycle, the bottle should be at or above the bowl--and far above ambient--pressure at all times until it hits the snifter, at which time the bottle should be completely isolated from the bowl.

            I'm pretty well befuddled by this and would greatly appreciate any suggestions!
            What is this world coming to when YOU come to Us looking for answers?

            Do you check the beer in the tank as bottling goes along for airs? Did you test the CO2 line to the brite tank?

            Strictly from a engineering standpoint, if you only put beer and CO2 in the bowl and the bowl is at >2atm, there is no way for atmospheric air to
            get in.

            Any air trouble in your kegs?
            eatdrinkandbemerry
            Jon Hill, Brewer
            Atlantic Brewing Co
            jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

            Comment


            • Thanks, Benny. All of us need some help at times!

              We monitor the DO levels in the bottles, which reflect those of the beer in the bowl. The levels slowly increase during a day of bottling. Additionally, sampling the headspace gasses in the bowl shows that that is where the DO is coming from.

              Monitoring the DO in the incoming line from the bright tank shows no increase in DO. We have no problems with our kegged beer, and get very acceptable DOs from our cans.

              I agree that this makes no sense. Our brewers are worried that O2 infiltration could occur across that 2 bar pressure gradient, but, as I've pointed out to them, the float valve on the bowl regularly opens to vent pressure and allow more beer into the bowl, and this doesn't seem to be related, as the DO problem is new. I can't imagine that O2 would osmose into the CO2 filled space via a leak that was spewing gas. Besides, I can't find any leaks.

              This is driving me nuts!
              Timm Turrentine

              Brewerywright,
              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
              Enterprise. Oregon.

              Comment


              • Alright. Here's my best guess as to what's going on:

                The pre-evac system draws the air from the bottle, flushes it with CO2, then draws the CO2 down, leaving the bottle under vacuum for a very short period of time before the equalizer valve opens, filling the bottle with CO2 from the bowl headspace. When the pressure is equalized, the product valve opens, allowing beer to displace the gasses in the bottle back into the headspace of the bowl.

                If the bottle seals are not 100% tight, they might be allowing some air into the bottles during that brief period between evac and equalizing. It wouldn't take much, and could just be one or two seals very slightly leaking to account for the build-up of O2 we're seeing in the bowl headspace.

                I'm replacing all the bottle seals right now. While a bad bottle seal usually manifests as a failure to equalize and therefore fill, it's possible that a leak is so small it just allows air in under vacuum.
                Timm Turrentine

                Brewerywright,
                Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                Enterprise. Oregon.

                Comment


                • Still a mystery.

                  I replaced all the bottle seals. Our TPO still sucks.

                  Where the hell else can air be getting into the bowl? I have no leaks whatsoever. I've replaced every seal I can. I've tested for and/or eliminated every source of air I can think of.

                  I'm going back to pounding my head against the wall now.
                  Timm Turrentine

                  Brewerywright,
                  Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                  Enterprise. Oregon.

                  Comment


                  • Gai 3031 fm

                    Timm- You still on here? We are having an error message on our bottling machine for "Lack of caps" error message BF 801. The caps are there and the vibrator is working. Im thinking the lower sensor is failing, but I'm trying to trouble shoot the cause of the failure. Anyone have any ideas?

                    Duffy Griffiths
                    Director Of Brewing Operations
                    Greenport Harbor Brewing Company

                    Comment


                    • Don: There is a sensitivity adjustment on the sensor. You need a tiny standard screwdriver. One came zip-tied to the cord of the sensor.

                      We changed caps a while back and I played hell getting those sensors to detect the new caps. I don't know what the problem was, but I had to actually move the upper sensor mount to finally get it to detect the caps, and even now it will only detect them in the right position.

                      Be very careful if it's calling for the vibrator to run excessively. The motor coil for the vibrator can overheat and burn out, and a replacement cost us $1,200 ten years back.
                      Timm Turrentine

                      Brewerywright,
                      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                      Enterprise. Oregon.

                      Comment



                      • Hello,

                        Chris from Pennsylvania brewing company in Pittsburgh PA, we have a GAI 5003a 16 head filler that has been in service since 2010. Thank you for making this thread. I have showed our mechanic about all the maintence that you have been doing on your GAI 3003a, which is a very simular machine. We rebuilt all the heads, rebuild the capper springs, I told him about rebuilding the top bowl seals. which he is ordering the parts now.

                        The issue we are having is about DO. We unfortunately do not have own a DO meter. But we do know another local brewery that does have one. I took one bottle from each fill head and marked it with the corresponding fill head. I took two sets of bottles to the brewery with the DO meter. He did a TPO for the bottles. 1-8 fill heads were greater than 30ppb and as high as 83ppb. but then heads 9-16 were all below 20ppb in the teens. My question is... Is there anything in the filter bowl that diverts the co2, vacuum to only heads 1-8 and only 9-16? Its very strange that exactly 1-8 which is 50% of the fill heads is high and 9-16 are low DO. We're scratching our heads.

                        Click image for larger version  Name:	Disolved Oxygen.jpeg Views:	0 Size:	56.8 KB ID:	302967

                        Thank You for any input,
                        Cheers
                        Chris
                        Last edited by christopher561; 08-26-2020, 06:17 PM.

                        Comment


                        • I wish I could help you there, Chris, but we're having a similar problem and I've been unable to find the cause. I've beaten my head against the wall over this 'til I ran out of walls.
                          Timm Turrentine

                          Brewerywright,
                          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                          Enterprise. Oregon.

                          Comment


                          • Hey TImm.

                            Don't do that. thats got to hurt, I'm going to try and contact GAI. I'm just trying to think if the co2 and vacuum lines are bored through the turrets outter stainless steel wall and maybe 1-8 heads combine to one point, and 9-16 combine to one point also.

                            Thanks for the reply! I hope we figure it out!

                            Comment


                            • Did you buy yours through Prospero? Pros now charges something like $25 to talk to a tech for 15 minutes.

                              Keep us updated on what, if anything, you learn. I'm back to chasing an external air leak on ours.
                              Timm Turrentine

                              Brewerywright,
                              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                              Enterprise. Oregon.

                              Comment

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