Calling all GAI Filler/Capper users

[TGTimm]

Continued.

With your 1/2" wrench, loosen, but don't remove this bolt:



You want to back the bolt out until these seals are exposed:



Remove the o-rings. We'll get the plastic rings later.

Now remove this bolt:



The spacers and fingers might now just slide off the shaft, but not likely. It happened for me twice out of twelve assemblies. This is where the little wheel puller comes in, and why we removed the o-rings first:



When you get to the first finger, STOP! There's a key on the shaft, and that fat washer isn't cut for it! Force at this point will break things!

Reached my picture limit again.

[TGTimm]

Gas valve opening cam seals replacement.

Time to replace some more seals. This time, we're replacing the seals here:



You'll need:

From Prospero:

24 of part # LRC 004125/30--seals. These consist of a plastic ring and o-ring each.

12 of part # OR 3168.

Tools:

8mm Allen wrench--I prefer a 3/8" drive on a ratchet wrench.

1/2" socket or ratcheting end wrench.

Small--4"--wheel puller, two- or three-jaw.

O-ring hook.

Small pliers.

Bench vice.

Food-grade grease.

Silicone plumber's grease.

Ready, set, go!

First, pull the filler heads. One at a time or all of them, your call.

Next, remove the cam and opener assembly:



GAI loves red Loc-tite. You might want to use a plumber's torch to soften it up if you haven't removed these before.

Pull the assembly out--it's tight, so pull as straight as you can.

Clamp the assembly in your shop vice by the cam--may as well remove this ring while you're at it:



Take a look at the fingers that open and close the gas valve:



Those fingers are very slightly asymmetrical. To be sure to get them back on the right way, I use a Sharpie to mark the side facing out.

Next post.

[TGTimm]

It's the o-ring (OR 3024) inside that uppermost little valve that's held on by the spring.

[bennybrew]

If the CO2 is leaking from the tip of the leveling stem and no beer is leaking, it's the valve on top of the filler assembly. This is a PITA to replace. See my post somewhere in this thread about rebuilding the filler heads.

Good luck!

Thanks! I think this is what we're up against.

[TGTimm]

I've had problems like this with the filler heads, too. Switch the heads around, and the problem stays where it was, even 'though you moved all the working parts to another location.

If the CO2 is leaking from the tip of the leveling stem and no beer is leaking, it's the valve on top of the filler assembly. This is a PITA to replace. See my post somewhere in this thread about rebuilding the filler heads.

The only other thing I can think of that would cause this would be a worn wheel on the valve closing wheel--around the backside of the machine. This wheel closes the little valve at he top of the filler, which allows the bottle to communicate with the CO2 in the bowl. You can test this by hand-twisting the triangular lever above the filler CCW. If this stops the leak, it may be that plastic wheel. If so, you may be able to turn the wheel around so the valve actuators ride on a different part of the wheel.

Good luck!

[bennybrew]

#5 leaks (sometimes)

#5 leaks from the filling stem very lightly with CO2 in the bowl. Other things: it only leaks CO2. If there is beer in the bowl it doesn't leak BUT also doesn't fill well. There is that slight pop as the pedestal comes down. We have replaced every gasket in the filling head and even replaced the forks at the top (which did not look at all bent) and it is still leaking. We even swapped 5 and 6 and 5 still leaked. We swapped the buttons from 5 and 6 and 5 still leaked and 6 did not. We cleaned the little off gas vent screw and nothing changed to the fills.

It seems like some gasket needs to be replaced but I'll be damned if I know which one it is.

We are not running it right now but will be Thursday.

Thanks in advance for any help.

[TGTimm]

Put the brass retainer back in and screw the five little 8mm head bolts back in. Grease all the inner surfaces well with your food-grade grease:



Replace all the o-rings you discarded after greasing them.

Grease the stub of the beer-in line that slides into the seals with the same. Worm your way back into position and carefully insert the assembly onto the bottom of the bowl.

Don't forget to replace the DN 40 gasket on the beer-in port!

Have a beer while you wait for your massage and adjustment!

[TGTimm]

I tackled the lower stack seals today. When I asked Prospero for all the parts I'd need, they left a few out--like all the seals for the vacuum part of the stack, so I only did the beer side of it.

I turned out to be exceptionally easy.

Here's the area of work:



Very conveniently located under the deck of the machine. Schedule a massage and back adjustment for afterwards.

Remove the DN 40 fitting on the beer-in line. Remove the four 15mm bolts in the center and you can pull this out:



I've already removed four of the five little 8mm hex-head bolts that retain the seals. There are two O-rings, one around the base of the central cylinder, OR 3250 and one around the edge of the flange, OR 4375. Remove and discard these.

The bolts that retain the flange also have o-rings, OR 106. remove and discard them:



Remove the brass seal retainer and pry the two seals, UM 6040, out and discard them:



Remove and discard the DN 40 gasket from the beer-in port.

Clean the heck out of all the remaining parts and reassemble with new rubber. Remember that the seals go with the "cup" towards the inside--bottom--of the fitting:



Grease the seals well with your food-grade grease before inserting them.

[TGTimm]

How to replce the bottom stack seals?

Has anyone done this on a GAI 3003A Bier? I need to replace these, but have no idea where to start this time.

[TGTimm]

Stack seals, finale.

This is where the witness mark you made earlier comes in handy. Well, vital, actually. I marked the bolt hole closest to me where I was standing inside the case of the machine.

Take a careful look at the ports on the stack rings. You don't want this:



Once the stack is pushed into place, it's very hard to remove without damaging the o-ring on the bottom of the stack. I ended up removing three of the four studs so I could get the ports lined up properly.

Since you were careful and didn't screw that up, you can now attach the metal lines to the ports. Leave both gland nuts on each line loose for now. Place the big retaining ring on top of the studs and carefully tighten the four nuts in an alternating pattern.



Now tighten those gland nuts. Place the top of the stack on, being sure you get the ports lined up with the right passages. Don't forget the three OR 112 o-rings! Start the three Allen-head bolts that secure the top and get them as tight as you can until the shaft starts to turn. Place the stabilizer bar over the big stud and on top of the stack, and use your Allen wrench in one of the center bolts to turn the shaft until the bolt holes line up. Screw in the three short bolts that secure the stabilizer bar and tighten them. Now go back and tighten the three inner bolts. Attach the three white PE lines to the proper ports on top of the stack.





You're done! Grab a beer and contemplate lying on your back inside the base of the machine tomorrow to replace the bottom stack seals!

[TGTimm]

Stack seals, cont.

Sorry about that. I'll try to get back on track.

The bottom, A, ring has only one set of two seals. They're on top of the ring.

To assemble a top seal set, first slide the ring onto the shaft. Slide the two plastic rings down over the shaft--be careful, they're really tight. Push them fully into the pocket of the stack ring:



Then grease the rubber o-rings well--I used plumber's silicone grease--and push the o-rings down into the pocket. Be sure they're pushed all the way down between the plastic rings and the pocket of the stack ringA smallish flat-blade screwdriver helps, but be careful not to damage the o-ring. Make sure the o-rings are fully seated.

Between each of the stack rings is a spacer. The spacer has two tiny weep holes, which are probably clogged:



A 5/64" drill bit is perfect for cleaning them out.

Slide that spacer on, and you're ready for the next set of seals and stack ring. This set will be on the bottom of the stack ring.

Push another set of plastic rings over the shaft and down to the top of the spacer ring:

This is where the last photo in the post above goes. The attachment manager here sucks.

Next, push two rubber o-rings into the pocket in the base of the next (G) ring.



Make sure they're well lubed. Push the G ring onto the shaft and down until the o-rings seat over the plastic rings. This will take some pushing, twisting and cursing.

For the rest, proceed as above.

The last part to go on for now is the flanged white bushing:



The stack should now look like this:



And we're ready to install it on the bowl.

[TGTimm]

Stack seals, cont.

The first thing to go back on the center shaft is the white cylindrical bushing:



Next is the G ring. This ring has a single, large o-ring--OR 4325--on the base



and a single set of seals in the top.

The seals comprise an o-ring and a plastic ring:



When assembled, each seal will look like this:



There are two sets of those, and you can't get them on the shaft assembled like this, of course.

Ignore this picture. I can't seem to delete a picture from a post.



And go to the nest post where I'll continue.

[TGTimm]

Bowl stack seal replacement

It's that time. In fact, it's far past that time.

We had a couple of GAI techs out a couple of weeks ago to give the ol' GAI 3003A Bier a good going over and tell me what needs fixing. They found very little that needs attention, but one of the things was the rotating stack seals on the bowl. They said these seals should be replaced yearly. This will be the first time I've replaced them since we installed the machine in '07.

There are two sets of these, one below and one above the bowl. I'll be replacing the seals on the top stack today.

Here it is, in all its glory:



The parts diagram is pg 30012-46601. The parts you'll need are:

GAI LRC-6250/60 X 10
OR 112 X 3
OR 4325 X 1

The tools you'll need:



14, 17, 19mm end wrenches. The adjustable wrench is for the one large--22mm?--nut I don't have an end wrench for. 6mm Allen wrench--I prefer the socket style w/ratchet. Carbide scribe and Sharpie for marking.

First, label and remove the three white PE lines from the top of the stack and set them out of the way. The ports they attach to are labeled L, G and A.

Next, remove the three inner Allen-head bolts from the top of the stack:



That inner part is free to rotate, which is why these must be removed first. then remove the other three.

Now you'll pull the big nut that holds the stabilizing bar, and you can then remove the top of the stack.



Note that those holes must line back up with the proper ports on the top. I made a witness mark with my scribe to help me get it right. You'll also see where the three OR 112 o-rings go. Toss them.

Now pull the metal lines that attach to the rings. The A and L lines may be left loose in their fittings so you don't have to label them, but the G line comes off.

The top two rings of the stack can now be pulled off. Have fun with this. Twisting helps, as does cursing.

The bottom ring is a PITA to get off. Some kind of puller would be handy, but I don't see how you'd secure it. I used some screwdrivers to pry it up from the top of the bowl. It will come off with the center shaft.

Now, strip all the old rubber and get everything as clean as possible. I gave the parts about 30 minutes in our big ultra-sonic cleaner with caustic lye, then a short soak with phos acid. After that, I went to it with 4-0 (0000) steel wool until everything was clean and shiny. Pay especial attention to the areas of the center shaft where the seals run--it needs to be as smooth and shiny as possible.

The center shaft, after cleaning:



Out of attachments for this post. Continued....

[TGTimm]

More crowner replacements

Time for a tune-up on the crowner again, and this time, I need some new parts.

The body of the lower unit of the crowner has worn to the point it no longer holds the crown-pusher plunger straight. The spring has lost some spring over the last few years.



The old parts are on the right. The over-all-length of the new spring is almost exactly 5 1/2". As you can see, the old one is a good 1/2" shorter.

[TGTimm]

Adam--I'm not familiar with the particulars of the 5003, but if it works at all like the 3003, I might have some ideas.

I'd think this is a pressure problem in the bowl. How big is the line that feeds the CO2 to the bowl? How long? If the bowl pressure is less than that in the bottle, you will get exactly this happening when the leveling circuit opens.

Another place to look is the leveling pressure. The filler head should be introducing a shot of CO2 into the bottle when the leveling circuit opens to raise the pressure in the bottle above that in the bowl. I think the 3003 manual recommends that the leveling pressure be 1/2 bar above that of the bowl.

Since these are "surge" uses, calling for a fair amount of gas in a short period of time, a good supply of CO2 is needed. You might consider using a surge tank immediately before the secondary regulator going to the bottling machine. This is simply a pressure vessel--I use 30 gallon air compressor tanks--that is hooked up to the high-pressure CO2 main. I run our main at 125 psi. A high-flow secondary regulator reduces the pressure to that specified for the bottler through a 3/4" line. This allows the CO2 system to keep up with large surge demands.