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  • #46
    Looks like you are looking for an "extreme pressure" oil.

    Here's a link to a data sheet for the BP Energol: http://www.minaco.ba/bp/bp_pdf/TL%20...ol%20GR-XP.pdf

    Call Grainger on the phone--they stock far more than I can ever find in their on-line catalog, and are very good at cross-referencing exotic (GAI) lubricants. They set me up with a food-grade grease with all the same specs as the GAI spec'd Paraliq or Klubersynth for ~$10/tube instead of $50!
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
      Looks like you are looking for an "extreme pressure" oil.

      Here's a link to a data sheet for the BP Energol: http://www.minaco.ba/bp/bp_pdf/TL%20...ol%20GR-XP.pdf

      Call Grainger on the phone--they stock far more than I can ever find in their on-line catalog, and are very good at cross-referencing exotic (GAI) lubricants. They set me up with a food-grade grease with all the same specs as the GAI spec'd Paraliq or Klubersynth for ~$10/tube instead of $50!
      Thanks Tim! I'll give it a try.

      -Richard

      Comment


      • #48
        Another useful mod

        I just did the annual conveyor-belt tear-out and clean, which, if you've done it, you'll agree is a RPITA (if you haven't done it, do it now!). The closed bottom of the conveyor track is a truly bad idea. There are organisms growing in there that are not known to science, not to mention bottle caps and broken glass chewing the crap out of your nice linkbelt.

        Several times (while removing/replacing the belt), we've managed to get the belt jammed under the driven pulley, requiring re-wiring the gear motor so we could reverse it and get the belt un-jammed, then re-wiring it to go forward again--until the next jam. Broken glass and crowns love to lodge in this area, and the undescribed orgs lay their eggs and nurture their young in the gooey environment.

        I finally got out the 4-inch angle grinder and a cut-off wheel and simply cut the bottom out of the conveyor channel under the driven pulley. Q&D (very D), and replacing the belt couldn't have been much easier (never easy). No more junk lodged under there, either.

        The only problem with this mod is that a piece of UHMW plastic, meant to protect the belt, is anchored in this area. I left a flap of metal attached to the end of the plastic strip and wedged it against the up-flow end of my new cut-out. No problem.

        Here's a pic: http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2816/1...6ee01a15_o.jpg

        The flap of metal and plastic are at the left of the new opening.

        I just wish I could replace the whole danged channel with an open-bottom one!
        Last edited by TGTimm; 03-04-2014, 03:46 PM.
        Timm Turrentine

        Brewerywright,
        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
        Enterprise. Oregon.

        Comment


        • #49
          Can't change filler height

          Wow. Just when everything seemed to be going smoothly.

          I tried to raise the filler for cleaning this afternoon, and I get the "Blocked" message at the heights input screen. The filler doesn't move at all; the motor moves a fraction of a turn, then stops. Tried several times. Restarted the machine after turning off for 5 minutes--several times.

          Everything looks fine. The chain is fine, nothing seems to be blocking the mechanism.

          Of course, the NY office is closed for the day, and all the Left coast techs are out on calls and not answering cells.

          Anyone know this one?
          Timm Turrentine

          Brewerywright,
          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
          Enterprise. Oregon.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
            Wow. Just when everything seemed to be going smoothly.

            I tried to raise the filler for cleaning this afternoon, and I get the "Blocked" message at the heights input screen. The filler doesn't move at all; the motor moves a fraction of a turn, then stops. Tried several times. Restarted the machine after turning off for 5 minutes--several times.

            Everything looks fine. The chain is fine, nothing seems to be blocking the mechanism.

            Of course, the NY office is closed for the day, and all the Left coast techs are out on calls and not answering cells.

            Anyone know this one?

            My monoblock doesn't have the computer terminal interface so I've never dealt with a "blocked" error message...that being said, I do know that there is a knob on a pillar behind the filler bowl that my manual insists that I unscrew before changing the height of the filler bowl. That's really the only thing that I could imagine would be blocking anything having to do with the filler bowl height.

            The knob I'm referring to digs into the stainless steel tube that connects the filler bowl to the vacuum pump, alleviating any pressure the weight of the tube might have on the filler bowl lid and valves.

            I'd make sure that that is loosened adequately before trying to adjust the height. Without a computer I get no warning message, but one of my guys scratched the tube and knob up pretty good when changing the height without unscrewing the knob first.

            If my description is too cryptic, let me know and I'll post pictures (or at least the diagrams from the manual).

            Good luck!

            -Richard

            Comment


            • #51
              Thanks, Richard.

              Unfortunately, our machine doesn't have that locking device. Would'a been far too easy. What I've found after a couple of hours' tinkering is that the gear motor can turn in the lowering direction, but not the raising one. Something seems to be jammed.

              I measured the clearance from the bottom, moving plate to the top, fixed plate, and the clearance on the tops of the four adjusting posts, and the unit is 3mm lower on one corner. The chain may have jumped a tooth on that one post. I'm waiting to hear from Richard @ Pros. NY before I start tearing thing apart.
              Timm Turrentine

              Brewerywright,
              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
              Enterprise. Oregon.

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                Thanks, Richard.

                Unfortunately, our machine doesn't have that locking device. Would'a been far too easy. What I've found after a couple of hours' tinkering is that the gear motor can turn in the lowering direction, but not the raising one. Something seems to be jammed.

                I measured the clearance from the bottom, moving plate to the top, fixed plate, and the clearance on the tops of the four adjusting posts, and the unit is 3mm lower on one corner. The chain may have jumped a tooth on that one post. I'm waiting to hear from Richard @ Pros. NY before I start tearing thing apart.
                This exact thing has happen to us twice. All I had to loosen the chain enough around the problem post and manually turn it (with screw driver and hammer) to level everything out. After it happened a second time I bought a new chain and we've been good ever since.
                Nate Jackson
                Packaging Manager
                Marble Brewery
                Albuquerque, NM

                Comment


                • #53
                  Well... I have grease from my ears to my knees, lots of micro-cuts from the broken glass embedded in the grease, and one seized bearing. The bearing below the cogwheel that moves one of the posts is toast. I've got it almost off and now I'm a little stuck as I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the danged assembly out of the machine. And I'm far too old to be doing this kind of crap anymore!
                  Timm Turrentine

                  Brewerywright,
                  Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                  Enterprise. Oregon.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                    Well... I have grease from my ears to my knees, lots of micro-cuts from the broken glass embedded in the grease, and one seized bearing. The bearing below the cogwheel that moves one of the posts is toast. I've got it almost off and now I'm a little stuck as I'm having trouble figuring out how to get the danged assembly out of the machine. And I'm far too old to be doing this kind of crap anymore!
                    Ya know... I did get a useful doc from Prospero to take apart the liquid leveler on my line (pics below)... I have asked them for the same kind of document for EVERY piece of what we have (no response yet...time to ping them again). It helped me greatly to have the pictures of how everything fits together in front of me while trying to replace a missing gasket. I wonder if there isn't a similar step-by-step picture guide for the piece you're working on, Tim... Might want to ask them?

                    Here are some of the pics I am talking about. There are 10 in total. If anyone finds these useful I can put up the rest.
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                    Good luck!

                    -Richard

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Fortunately, our machine doesn't have the levelers like that. No one at Pros. has mentioned that they have any documents like those, so I've been trying to take pictures to document most of the stuff I regularly fix on the bottler. I'm trying to put together a blog on our company website where I can post the pictures and detailed instructions (in English). Maybe sometime in the next year.

                      The problem with the bearing I had to tear out was mostly just one of access. The procedure is fairly straight forward, but my arms don't have enough joints in the right places and my back doesn't bend like it used to! Anyway, the bearing is out; the new one on the way. Getting the new one in should be interesting, as the frozen bearing actually make the tear-down easier.

                      The techs at Pros. have informed me that keeping the top of the bearing heavily greased would prevent the failure we had. Nice thinking, guys--the top of the bearing is totally inaccessible without a five-hour disassembly!

                      I'm going to have a beer and try to get some of the grease off--hoping the beer will help bring my blood volume back up.
                      Last edited by TGTimm; 03-07-2014, 04:01 PM.
                      Timm Turrentine

                      Brewerywright,
                      Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                      Enterprise. Oregon.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Lesson learned

                        The cause of failure of the bearing I'm replacing was water in the bearing. Rust stains were obvious below the bearing. I found another bearing with similar stains (one of the gears in the gear train between rinser and filler), so I've replaced that one, too.

                        These bearings, unfortunately, do not have SS balls--some of the newer machines may, as Pros. offered me a choice of SS or tool steel (I chose SS).

                        Moral of the story: take a careful look next time you're under the machine lubing it, and note anywhere that rust appears to be leaking out of a bearing (or anything else). If you find any, plan on replacing that bearing ASAP. When replacing the bearing, pack the top of the bearing thoroughly with a good quality grease. This might prevent (or at least slow) water intrusion in the future.

                        I'm also going to try to find where the water is getting through the upper deck and into the bearings and caulk those places with RTV silicone.
                        Timm Turrentine

                        Brewerywright,
                        Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                        Enterprise. Oregon.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Proper Lube found and 2 more problems

                          Welp,

                          I went ahead and called Grainger for our lube. They recommended this one: http://www.grainger.com/product/CRC-...-SAE-90-12G569 so I bought it and lubed up the machine. We ran all day yesterday and it worked like a charm. Now I just need to figure out what to do with a 5 gallon bucket of SAE 90 Food Grade gear oil... Anyway, thanks for the tip!

                          We're still battling several issues with our line though. Perhaps someone here has handled these problems already? Any advice on fixing them would be greatly appreciated:

                          1) Cork Sensor not set up properly:
                          Our line is equipped with a sensor that detects the presence of a cork in the bottle as the bottle leaves the monoblock. If the sensor picks up that a bottle has no cork, it is supposed to stop the line immediately.

                          Well, when we first received the line, the sensor was set up such that it read every bottle as OK, cork or not. The service manager tweaked the sensor on Tuesday and declared that it should now properly continue operations when a cork is present, and stop the machine when one is absent (awesome!). Well, we fired up the line yesterday and the sensor decided that every single bottle that passed through the machine had no cork...but they all did (not so awesome). We've gone from detecting a cork 100% of the time to detecting a cork 0% of the time. So, to continue operating yesterday I had to bypass and keep a close eye on our cork supply. So far I know that the top sensor should read the cork presence and the side sensor should read the glass presence. If the side sensor reads *PRESENT* and the top sensor reads *NOT PRESENT* then it should stop the machine (or so I assume). If both read *PRESENT* then the machine keeps running.

                          Question: Has anyone had to configure one of these to work properly? We've been provided with no technical data on how the sensor even works and what proper configuration looks like (the Prospero guys didn't even know that the switch on our control panel was tied to the sensor at first and had to call the factory to find out). Anyone have adjustment info on this thing (or something like it)?

                          2) Labels wrinkling:
                          We've had problems labeling from the get-go. We're working from a lot of different angles to solve our problems, but one question we have is what our biggest roller shaft should look like when it turns. Check out this first video and this second video to see what we're dealing with. Our concern is that we have way too big of a wobble in the roller shaft, which is causing our labels to go on crooked/wrinkled. Anyone able to chime in here? What do your labeler roller shafts look like?

                          That's all for now!

                          -Richard

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Richard--

                            I suspect that getting the cork sensor working right will be a matter of trial-and-error. The sensors must be opto-electronic, bounce-back type IR sensors. They emit a beam of IR light, and sense when it bounces back from an object. The bottle sensor should be relatively easy to set, since the bottle is large and there's room for some error. The cork sensor, OTOH....

                            The adjustments I'd look at first are the physical location and spacing--sensor-object distance. Fiddle with these using a few corked and uncorked bottles. If you're lucky, there may be an LED indicator on the back end of the sensor that will tell you it's detecting something. If not... you ain't lucky.

                            If you can't get the thing working by moving the sensors, there should be a tiny, plastic screw on the back end of the senor for adjusting the sensitivity. Good luck if you need to mess with these. Be sure to make tiny adjustments, and keep track of how much you've moved them in case you decide to go back to the original setting.

                            Best of luck!

                            Labels wrinkling in the bottler or the labeler?
                            Timm Turrentine

                            Brewerywright,
                            Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                            Enterprise. Oregon.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
                              Richard--

                              I suspect that getting the cork sensor working right will be a matter of trial-and-error. The sensors must be opto-electronic, bounce-back type IR sensors. They emit a beam of IR light, and sense when it bounces back from an object. The bottle sensor should be relatively easy to set, since the bottle is large and there's room for some error. The cork sensor, OTOH....

                              The adjustments I'd look at first are the physical location and spacing--sensor-object distance. Fiddle with these using a few corked and uncorked bottles. If you're lucky, there may be an LED indicator on the back end of the sensor that will tell you it's detecting something. If not... you ain't lucky.

                              If you can't get the thing working by moving the sensors, there should be a tiny, plastic screw on the back end of the senor for adjusting the sensitivity. Good luck if you need to mess with these. Be sure to make tiny adjustments, and keep track of how much you've moved them in case you decide to go back to the original setting.

                              Best of luck!

                              Labels wrinkling in the bottler or the labeler?
                              Tim, there is an LED on the sensor (some luck for me finally!). I'll try moving the position and adjusting the sensitivity screw (so that's what it does!) to see if I can get it to work properly. Thanks for the insight on how this thing works.

                              On the labeling front, we label our bottles after we fill them; it's the last process the bottles go through before they are boxed up...which means that the labeler is putting the labels on wrinkled. Troubleshooting the physics of label application when 6+ variables (moisture, machine tilt, label speed, bottle spin speed, roller angle, bottle surface variation, etc) are constantly changing is no easy task. I was more wondering if anyone has a roller that wobbles as much as ours does and whether or not they are still able to label successfully. This is just the first of many questions on the way to resolution, but it's still unclear if the roller has to be absolutely flat. Or are the materials forgiving enough that it shouldn't matter?

                              -Richard

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Issues with Filler Exit star and side column that holds pedestal cam

                                Our Side Column that holds the pedestal cam has broken off. Not sure what caused it, but some how it lowered our pedestals to the point of grinding the pedestal cam. After working on it for a little bit, we realized that the spring beneath the filler exit star didn't have enough tension as well. After some work we thought that it looked good and got the ball bearings back in place, but now the exit star will not rotate. We turned it until it locked, applied more tension, but still no luck. Anyone have any ideas???Click image for larger version

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                                Kyle

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