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Using Nitrogen to push beer to filler

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  • Using Nitrogen to push beer to filler

    Hi

    We just bottled our first 530 growlers last week! We have a single wall Brite and we use Nitrogen to push our beer to the filler (I built a 4 head growler filler). Of course it worked perfectly.

    IIRC Nitrogen is not absorbed by beer to the same degree as C02. For growlers we fill 100 of them an hour so we are done with the Brite in less than 6hours, no issue.

    We are considering a bottle filler for our 500mL, what if we spread the bottling over 3 days? Will the nitrogen left in the headspace of the brite affect the beer in any way? I'd like to think it won't but I can't say for sure.

    Thanks!
    Cheers!
    ______________

    Mario Bourgeois
    www.CasselBrewery.ca
    Casselman ON Canada

  • #2
    What is the advantage to pushing the beer to the filler with nitrogen (or a beer gas mixture) instead of co2?

    Comment


    • #3
      the only reason is that Nitrogen tanks contains more gas volume than the C02 tanks, its a cost saving approach only.
      Cheers!
      ______________

      Mario Bourgeois
      www.CasselBrewery.ca
      Casselman ON Canada

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, you will lose all your carbonation in the beer. You are losing some over 6 hours, and you will lose all over three days.
        Linus Hall
        Yazoo Brewing
        Nashville, TN
        www.yazoobrew.com

        Comment


        • #5
          I knew there would be something, thanks for chiming in Linus!
          Cheers!
          ______________

          Mario Bourgeois
          www.CasselBrewery.ca
          Casselman ON Canada

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by CasselBrewery
            the only reason is that Nitrogen tanks contains more gas volume than the C02 tanks, its a cost saving approach only.
            I haven't done the calculation but it seems counter-intuitive to me that there would less volume in the CO2 tanks. Is it really that much cheaper?

            Comment


            • #7
              A while back our homebrew club did the math and nitrogen had almost 50% more volume cause its more compressed? So say I can bill our 12BBL brite 3 times with C02 we were able to fill it 4.5 times with nitro.

              Now that I know about losing carbonation... F!! Nitrogen! LOL!

              I'm so careful when carbing and then I was partly ruining it with my nitrogen idea... not too productive!
              Cheers!
              ______________

              Mario Bourgeois
              www.CasselBrewery.ca
              Casselman ON Canada

              Comment


              • #8
                Our gas supplier told us that you get way more CO2 per tank than nitrogen. I think this is because CO2 is in a liquid state while in the tank where as nitrogen is stored as a compressed gas. Seems right as the one time we used nitrogen it burned off way faster than our normal CO2 tank.

                Not positive about this, just relaying what I was told.
                Beejay
                Pipeworks Brewing Company

                Comment


                • #9
                  Actually Beejay that makes sense... I recall when we bottled I saw the high pressure gauge on the nitrogen go down pretty quick and that was for a single 12BBL brite...
                  Cheers!
                  ______________

                  Mario Bourgeois
                  www.CasselBrewery.ca
                  Casselman ON Canada

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I believe nitrogen is also quite a bit more expensive than CO2.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      There are other threads that address this issue as well. Yes you can use N2 over 6 hours without appreciable loss of carbonation. We do this every packaging run--at least twice a week. No you cannot use it over three days. Dalton's Law. You will lose carbonation as a function of gas percent, albeit that the equilibrium state is arrived at rather slowly in brewing tanks of standard geometries. See other threads for more on this. Beejay is right. With equal tank volumes, most N2 tanks actually hold less gas than CO2. CO2 is a liquid under sufficient pressure. N2 isn't normally sold as liquid for brewing--although I've used it in liquid Dewars before. Liquids can produce vast quantities of gas when boiled (as liquid CO2 does as you lower the pressure to use it). Compressed gases--not so much as volume is directly proportional to pressure. Your gas supplier should set this right for you. As for price, it depends. N2 is by far way cheaper for us on an island with an N2 generator vs. shipping tanks both ways as hazardous cargo.
                      Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Thanks for the detailed explanation Phillip much appreciated! Cheers
                        Cheers!
                        ______________

                        Mario Bourgeois
                        www.CasselBrewery.ca
                        Casselman ON Canada

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          growler

                          My thoughts are the same on the above nitrogen issue...but i would like to see this 4 head growler filler if you mind showing us a picture?
                          thanks
                          Iscorice

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Hi Iscorice

                            Here my prototype being commercialized as we speak

                            Cheers!
                            ______________

                            Mario Bourgeois
                            www.CasselBrewery.ca
                            Casselman ON Canada

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              You could get yourself a nitrogen generator and thereby save on the amount you need to spend on gas.

                              I'd be curious to see a Zahm & Nagle reading off a piercing model to see what you think your co2 volumes are at the start of filling vs. what they actually are in the last bottles. Given you're not actually doing any counter pressure filling your losses in co2 (and possibly beer?) would be appreciable.

                              You should save your spillage records from the filling process to report to excise - they can be real sticky about that stuff.

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