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  • TGTimm
    replied
    Short of taking the back plate to a good machinist and having the seal carrier cut out and the back plate re-threaded, this is toast. I don't think we have a machine shop around here capable of doing this.

    New back plate: $600. New C216 pump--with much cheaper and easier to replace seals: $2k.

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  • UnFermentable
    replied
    You might also be able to grind down a cheap pass-through socket (I doubt you’ll find a square drive one that fits). Most are round, so you’d have to square the outer profile to fit around the spindle, and lock on the screw in piece. [o] shape socket is your best bet.

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  • UnFermentable
    replied
    I try not to use temperature extremes except as a last resort, so you may be past these already. Sometimes a few good angled whacks from a dead blow hammer can break the bond if itÂ’s just fused at the gall itself. Another trick is to use a palm sander to vibrate the backing plate. It helps if you add WD-40 or some type of penetrating oil to prevent further galling when backing out. Try either one after temp flexing with either a map torch or a liquified gas if you have to. The temp flexing can impact the temper of the metal and this can be extremely dangerous when working with high rotational speeds. ItÂ’s not likely you are going to cause those issues on these metals and thinkness, however it is possible.

    If it fit right, IÂ’d take a piece of square tubing, weld it to a harbor freight socket, and impact wrench that **** right out with 700+ ft/lbs of torque. Re-tap before the second go round. Use a Nickel based anti-seize to help prevent galling.

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  • TGTimm
    replied
    I found the data plate for the pump! It's hidden under the shroud over the motor coupling:

    Click image for larger version

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    Now I have a new problem. I got the seal kit from CPE--great folks and thanks, Don! But as I was installing the static seal carrier, which threads into the backplate of the pump, it galled and seized just shy of being fully flush. I tried starting the pump with it slightly proud, but no go.

    Click image for larger version

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    Any tricks for getting a friction-welded SS threaded part broken loose? I already tried using liquid CO2 to freeze (-60C) the carrier and hopefully shrink it enough to break the bond, but no joy there. White stuff in the picture is dry ice.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 12-23-2019, 11:20 AM.

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  • Starcat
    replied
    Appearance

    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
    Thanks, Warren! I should have gone to Don to start with. Slipped my mind.
    The main thing that make it look like Topline is the cover over the rotating member.
    This was the tell.

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  • UnFermentable
    replied
    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
    that isn't a viable option for me, as it would take the pump out of service until I get the seals. As it is, we can still use the pump for CIP until the seals arrive.
    Totally get it - Usually this ends up being the CLT pump that can't afford to go down for even a short interval. I have found this to be my best argument for pump uniformity (as much as possible) and backup/service pump stock, and for union connection into stationary pump installations (TC obviously is similar to a union). You wouldn't necessarily need to wait for new seals, just measure and put back into service, but I understand the point. You may not be able to be down for a short time. It isn't always possible, or affordable, but sure is sweet when you can just swap it out and then rebuild after.

    One more suggestion, on the mounting plate down low or somewhere obvious electro-pencil in the seal part number so that you don't have to remember 10 years from now. And CPE so you know where to get it.
    Last edited by UnFermentable; 11-22-2019, 04:45 PM.

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  • TGTimm
    replied
    Originally posted by Thirsty_Monk View Post
    Work is never done.
    Which would explain why I'm here at work on my nominal day off!

    Don at CPE has straightened this out for me. Pump is an AL LKH. I'll be getting the seals on the way.

    Unf--Unfortuately, that isn't a viable option for me, as it would take the pump out of service until I get the seals. As it is, we can still use the pump for CIP until the seals arrive.

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  • UnFermentable
    replied
    Also just want to mention that the 3-A is a sanitary standard and represents a certified product (like a UL registration). There are many many companies and products that will carry this symbol, and the #02-09 would be an old certificate, but would probably represent centrifugal and positive rotary pumps. (The current certificate for centrifugal and rotary pumps is #02-11)

    Leave a comment:


  • UnFermentable
    replied
    I have run into several pumps over the years with missing or defaced name plates. Can be a major PITA for sure, but usually just the electrical side. For pump seals, you can usually just pull the seal and then measure with calipers (preferably digital). Anymore, I don't even look up the manufacturer at all. I just pull the seal and find a suitable replacement.

    https://epm.com/how-to-measure-mechanical-seals

    Then you can purchase a replacement, or upgrade if you prefer a different seal material (Viton, Carbon, Etc). I usually find what I need fairly cheap at US Seal MFG, or Seals Unlimited Inc. McMaster has a number for sale, but the sizes are limited. Grainger may have some too. O-rings can be measured and sourced similarly.

    But, I'd look at the suggested option above first!

    Leave a comment:


  • Thirsty_Monk
    replied
    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
    Thanks!

    Looks like I'll be tearing into that pump today. After I weld the broken loading dock, move an air reservoir, clean the HL system, etc.....
    Work is never done.

    Leave a comment:


  • TGTimm
    replied
    Thanks!

    Looks like I'll be tearing into that pump today. After I weld the broken loading dock, move an air reservoir, clean the HL system, etc.....

    Leave a comment:


  • CPESystems
    replied
    Looks like a ALFA LAVAL LKH or the older G&H brand GHH pump.

    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
    Thanks, Warren! I should have gone to Don to start with. Slipped my mind.
    This looks like a Alfa Laval LKH pump or it's predecessor, the G&H brand GHH pump. We will have seals for both of these but I will need to know the following:

    1) Motor frame size
    2) Inlet and outlet size
    3) Impeller diameter (approximate is ok)

    A picture of the existing seal will help determine if it is a LHK or GHH.

    Leave a comment:


  • TGTimm
    replied
    Thanks, Warren! I should have gone to Don to start with. Slipped my mind.

    Leave a comment:


  • Starcat
    replied
    Topline

    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
    We have three pumps around the brewery that might be Alfa Lavals--or not. I'd like to have some spare seals for them, but they have NO data plates (except the motors) at all. A metal plate at he top of the back showing rotation, nothing else.

    Here's the main suspect:

    [ATTACH]64610[/ATTACH][ATTACH]64611[/ATTACH]

    There is this little sticker on the smallest of the three:

    [ATTACH]64612[/ATTACH]

    The pump service company that used to work on our pumps--and had all the records--no longer exists.

    TIA!
    Timm, almost guaranteed its a " Topline " brand. They use that 3A thing. Don at CPE can help you out.
    First serious thread I have seen in ages.

    Star

    Leave a comment:


  • TGTimm
    started a topic Name that pump!

    Name that pump!

    We have three pumps around the brewery that might be Alfa Lavals--or not. I'd like to have some spare seals for them, but they have NO data plates (except the motors) at all. A metal plate at he top of the back showing rotation, nothing else.

    Here's the main suspect:

    Click image for larger version

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ID:	196239Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-11-20 002 Pump.jpg
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ID:	196240

    There is this little sticker on the smallest of the three:

    Click image for larger version

Name:	2019-11-20 001 Pump.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	62.8 KB
ID:	196241

    The pump service company that used to work on our pumps--and had all the records--no longer exists.

    TIA!
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