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Music in your tap room?

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  • Craig Dhonau
    replied
    Wondering if anyone has tried both Commercial Pandora and Soundtrack your Brand. I’ve signed up for the free trial of Soundtrack your Brand; easy to set up, no extra hardware but I’m not real crazy about it. I’ve used Pandora Premium before and like it, but from my understanding the commercial version requires extra hardware.

    Soundtrack your our brand doesn’t include any SESAC artists, Pandora covers all the bases from what I can tell. Trying to keep it as simple as possible.

    Any help appreciated.

    Thanks,
    Craig.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jay Newbie
    replied
    Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
    Yeah, BM, Inc. and ASSHAT are know to actually send out "ringers"--spies and provocateurs--to do exactly what you mention. Another place here in town got hit that way--made a request, got a recording and video, called the proprietor and threatened to sue unless he paid up.

    [rant]
    With the huge extensions of copyright in the last few decades--it was 25 years, not inheritable or renewable, and is now 75 years and can be inherited and renewed--how can anything even be considered "original"? Look at the "Birthday Song" fiasco, or any of the numerous suits now being pursued based on a single "riff" being plagiarized! Just how many cord progressions are possible within the limits of what we call music? How many ways to construct a paragraph in English? How long until creativity is illegal (there was a sci-fi short written about this exact thing--nothing had been written for a century because it was all covered by copyright--back, I think, in the '50s)?

    Then there's patent law--Apple can patent the round corner?

    This began with the US Congress, and can only be fixed by the US Congress.
    [/rant]
    Thank Disney for changing the copyright laws. They wanted to protect Mickey so they screwed the world to do it.

    Leave a comment:


  • BlackMammoth
    replied
    I own a small nanobrewery and have dealt with these people for over a year after we started doing open mic mondays (our busiest night on average, highly encouraged). We started recieving emails and calls from 2 of these companies. I explained to them we use business pandora for recorded music and ALL music played is original. Their pricing structure began with a 75 Occupancy and something like 4000sq ft. We have a 31 occupancy and nowhere near where their numbers begin for sq ft so i used this as my leverage to say, "Well if you cant create a custom quote for our size business then we will continue to use business pandora and insist that all songs played are original" Rinse and repeat for over a year and i haven't heard from them in over 6 months. In our case they eventually left us alone and wasted time and wages trying to extort a brewery the size of a coffee shop. Good on ya scammers!

    Originally posted by Brewfist View Post

    Total for the year is $695. While I don't like shelling out money, I also respect recording artists being compensated for their work, just like me. I certainly hope this money actually makes it back to the bands who made the music.
    I thought this when i almost caved to the calls and letters from lawyers. I then thought about the maybe 3-6 local bands we book per year that are so happy to play music here. The $1200 I could pay these $#!* companies a year i can use to afford to pay these bands a fair wage and keep their dreams alive and be a better resource to our small community. The other option would be to not allow any live music, killing another venue that these artists have access too in a small town (which was exactly what another brewery in the area decided to do). THESE COMPANIES ARE KILLING SMALL ARTISTS OPPORTUNITIES WHILE AT THE SAME TIME CLAIMING THEY ARE HELPING THEM. True scums of the earth in my opinion.

    Leave a comment:


  • Brewfist
    replied
    The following is from the ASCAP agreement, it pretty much lets you know you can't stream music from your television without paying.

    Television and/or Radio (Line 5). This fee applies for the use of televisions and/or radios that are utilized for the reception of
    broadcast, satellite or cable programming when no live music (Line 1) or recorded music (Line 2) is performed and paid for under
    this license, and when such television and/or radio performances do not meet the exemption provided for in 17 U.S.C. Section
    110(5).


    Total for the year is $695. While I don't like shelling out money, I also respect recording artists being compensated for their work, just like me. I certainly hope this money actually makes it back to the bands who made the music.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jimmer
    replied
    IANAL, but...

    A friend ran into this, and asked another friend, who is an intellectual property lawyer. I don't guarantee that I got it right, but here's the gist of what I remember:

    —In New York State, where I live, you are allowed to play music in a workplace free of copyright payments. This means that if your office, just your office, hears the tunes, no payment is due.

    —in an eating or drinking establishment, they can argue that the music is part of the entertainment that people pay for, so the rules are different. —The Nasty Ones are basically shakedown artists. They harass you and try to get payment. If you are a big fish, make a lot of money, put on a lot of concerts, they might get pretty aggressive. Otherwise, they will probably just keep pestering you by phone.

    —The Nasties are agents for collecting for artists. If an artist connected with them plays his own music in your establishment, it's his right, and his gift to you. They can't come in and demand payment, he already forwent (?) it.

    —The usual response to them is to say "we only play non-copyright" and their usual response is to say that someone will make a mistake. True that. However, to violate copyright, in an enforceable way, they will have to catch you at it and document it, then take you to court. Even with lawyers on staff, this is expensive. What are they going to do, watch every local band concert to write down all the songs? And you may be able to buy off the artist in the meantime. If not you will probably have plenty of chance to buy them off by subscribing.

    —If you don't have a lot of concerts, keep a generally low profile, the lawyer said he knew people who stonewalled them for years by: being polite, not argumentative. being firm when saying no. meeting persistence with persistence.

    —If you decide to pay, they will rock you. My friend with the joint had a band once a month for a couple hours. They had a formula: so many seats (which they assumed were always filled) with a minimum of three concerts a week (maybe for their profitability, they didn't have a lower number) times something low per song worked out to $600 a year. Only when she did the math it worked out to about $10 per song actually listened to. They you have to consider that there are three agencies out there, all with their hand out, and they all ask for the same amount, which meant they were trying to nick her for $30 a song. Let alone that she had folkies who actually did play originals and public domain! How much of that $$ do you think goes to the artist, and how much to the peons working the phone banks/internet searches, and how much makes The Nasties rich?

    Outrageous? Sure is. I prefer to leave the brewpub biz to others and just tend my kettle ;?)

    Leave a comment:


  • CalebL
    replied
    Thanks

    Thanks for the responses. I guess we will just have to pony up when the time comes!

    Leave a comment:


  • GlacierBrewing
    replied
    Originally posted by CalebL View Post
    As in, old school LPs?

    If the business purchased them for use at the business, would that be acceptable? What about having a "spin your own" night, where customers can bring in their records to play? I'm assuming the second case would not be kosher, but not sure on the first.

    Thanks
    Hi CalebL,
    The issue is not who bought the albums or digital file or cassette tape or CD, the issue is if the music has been copyrighted and you have not secured a license to play the music in your public spaces, you are committing a copyright violation.
    Prost!
    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • briangaylor
    replied
    Originally posted by CalebL View Post
    As in, old school LPs?

    If the business purchased them for use at the business, would that be acceptable? What about having a "spin your own" night, where customers can bring in their records to play? I'm assuming the second case would not be kosher, but not sure on the first.

    Thanks
    I dont think either would be kosher sadly. I dont think buying any music/video from the store gives commercial broadcasting rights.

    Leave a comment:


  • CalebL
    replied
    What about playing records?

    As in, old school LPs?

    If the business purchased them for use at the business, would that be acceptable? What about having a "spin your own" night, where customers can bring in their records to play? I'm assuming the second case would not be kosher, but not sure on the first.

    Thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • briangaylor
    replied
    Originally posted by GlacierBrewing View Post
    Just got off the phone with BMI. I found out that if you have TVs on in your public space, you need to pay them a fee for the incidental music that is included in commercials, sports broadcasts, movies, shows, weather channel, etc, etc, etc. If you have the TVs muted, you need to send them a signed, notarized affidavit stating the sound is always muted. If one of your employees or a customer turns up the volume, you then run the risk of BMI suing you for not having a license from them to turn up the volume! This even applies if you are already paying for a commercial account from your TV signal provider. Might be that I will be removing the TVs from our tasting room.

    Perhaps I need to take a page from the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld: customer walk in, no talking, no sounds, order beer, pay for beer, drink beer, move to the left, place empty pint on bar, exit quietly.

    NO BEER FOR YOU!


    Prost!
    Dave

    Jeez - I wonder if this holds true even if you follow the other rules about 'home use' such as keeping the size of the TV and number of speakers below a certain threshold....

    You have to be dead inside to be able to work that enforcement job.

    Leave a comment:


  • GlacierBrewing
    replied
    Just got off the phone with BMI. I found out that if you have TVs on in your public space, you need to pay them a fee for the incidental music that is included in commercials, sports broadcasts, movies, shows, weather channel, etc, etc, etc. If you have the TVs muted, you need to send them a signed, notarized affidavit stating the sound is always muted. If one of your employees or a customer turns up the volume, you then run the risk of BMI suing you for not having a license from them to turn up the volume! This even applies if you are already paying for a commercial account from your TV signal provider. Might be that I will be removing the TVs from our tasting room.

    Perhaps I need to take a page from the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld: customer walk in, no talking, no sounds, order beer, pay for beer, drink beer, move to the left, place empty pint on bar, exit quietly.

    NO BEER FOR YOU!


    Prost!
    Dave

    Leave a comment:


  • Luch15
    replied
    Originally posted by I H8 UM View Post
    I wish we could only hire licensed musicians. Let them pay the fees since they decide what music they are going to play. If a musician had to be licensed for a public performance, there would be fewer musicians and the licensed ones could charge more. If they play a song that they aren't licensed for, they pay the fine. It works for my doctor and plumber. Musicians I have talked to love this idea.
    You can't possibly be serious! More regulation for god forbid music! Come on get real. I hope I am just not picking up on your humor.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bainbridge
    replied
    "picture on facebook of one of my assistant brewers holding a guitar" - that's hilarious!

    Live music is massively overrated and in general we've found it chases as many people away as it brings in. We'll still host it a couple nights a month, but we're scaling way back. Still paying AssHat and Body Mass Index about $2k a year for the privilege. But we also do a weekly trivia night that has music. And sometimes I just need to play whatever the hell I want in the taproom.

    Leave a comment:


  • nickfl
    replied
    Originally posted by rich24 View Post
    my approach is to provide no information whatsoever on my level of compliance
    I would suggest at least telling them that you have Pandora and no live music. You certainly don't have to be polite about it, god knows we aren't whenever they contact us, but you do want to avoid them initiating any legal action that you might have to respond to. They hire people via those "make money from home" internet ads to troll facebook, etc and they are generally pretty dumb and take all kinds of stupid things as indications of live music.

    We once called a pilot batch "every gose has its thorn" and posted a picture on facebook of one of my assistant brewers holding a guitar when we tapped it. Asscat saw it and started calling us. It took usabout a week to figure out what they were even referencing, since the facebook post was months old by the time they started harrasing us. My partner eventually called them back, explained that if they actually read the post it had nothing to do with live music, the guy in the picture doesn't even know how to play the guitar, we do not have live music, our liquor liability insurance prohibits us from even hosting live music, and we already pay pandora for the music we do play. They called back about three days later about the same post, as if they had never heard from us. He wasn't nice to them that time.

    We still hear from them every now and then via email or random form letter. We always remind them that we don't have live music, we do have commercial pandora, and that they have a standing invitation to eat a bag of dicks.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChesterBrew
    replied
    Well, we're now open to the public. And within the first day or two some guy in a suit walks in and orders a flight and is just acting... I don't know how to put it... suspicious. Maybe I'm paranoid but I suspect he was a lawyer scoping us out, particularly since we're located in small enough of a community that a) I didn't recognize the guy; and b) He was behaving like a stranger in a strange land.

    After Russel's reply to my own inquiry, we aren't playing music during business hours but do use the port on the clock radio for charging our credit card reader iPhone/iPod units. The radio interferes with our LED lighting (we get noticeable static when they're on) so I just play music from my personal iPod when I'm cleaning and when we're not open to the public. We're way too small to handle performances in our place, so that's not an issue. And, truth be told, when we get 20+ bodies in the place it gets loud enough that you wouldn't be able to play music before it becomes a music/conversation decibel level arms race. Not worth it. Hell, we don't even offer wi-fi. And the screen resolution is amazing on the real world anyway.

    If for some reason we get some sort of boilerplate letter in the near future, I'll be sure to let y'all know. And my reply to any said letter will be epic, I assure you.

    Leave a comment:

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