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10 minute mash??

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  • 10 minute mash??

    I was talking to another pro brewer today and he insisted that he knows of at least 2 breweries that are doing a 10 minute mash rest. As in dough in, wait 10 minutes, start 10 minute vorlauf, lauter. I told him he was nuts and thought maybe he misunderstood them, but he insisted he had witnessed it. I asked for more details, but he didn't really have any. The breweries he mentioned were large sized to big.

    Does anyone know a process that would allow a 10 minute rest? Is the thinking that because these are larger breweries that their dough in times are increased, so the grain that is in the tun is converting while the remaining grains are being delivered and a lower mash time is needed? I'd think that in a larger brewery (I work in a small-mid sized brewery) that you'd have bigger equipment that would deliver grain to the tun in a similar time as my tiny little auger would, if not faster. I also think that theory is bunk.

    I shouldn't be bothered by this, but it has been bugging me all day.


  • #2
    As long as you're testing for and achieving full conversion, why not? It seems like the malt we use converts the second it hits the water.


    • #3
      I've worked in a small brewery where we didn't have to "rest" the bigger grain bills because graining in took so long. Just depends on your ingredients and equipment.
      Sent from my Microsoft Bob

      Beer is like porn. You can buy it, but it's more fun to make your own. |


      • #4
        One brewery I worked at had 20 min rest times. Between that and a 15 min vorlauf we had pretty good efficiency. It was a 10bbl system. Compared to the 90 min rests we were doing before it came in .2 degrees plato lower on average.


        • #5
          Enzyme kill step?

          If there is no kill step (increasing the temp to 168F) then any conversion that didn't happen during dough-in and conversion should take place during vorlauf. NBD.
          Mike Elliott
          Head Brewer
          Philipsburg Brewing Co.


          • #6
            Definitely not unheard of. Several breweries that I know of that finish mashing in and start vorlaufing immediately. We do 20 minute mash rests here.


            • #7
              I've known a few breweries to do 10 minute mash rests and a vorlauf. 30 min in the tun before starting runoff isn't at all unusual. I've seen full starch conversion (via the iodine test) in as little as 8 min


              • #8
                We start vorlauf immediately after mash in, and then run off when wort is adequately clear. Usually between 25-35 mins.


                • #9
                  10 minutes Plus step

                  I mash in (12hl brew size) at 65 degrees and rest for 10 minutes, then start my step to 76 degrees, takes about another 15 minutes, then pump mash over to Lauter and have been achieving great conversion.

                  Lance Jergensen
                  Tonopah Brewing Co.
                  Nevada USA


                  • #10
                    Previous brewery I was at ran a 5 minute mash, 30 minute vorlauf, lauter within 90 minutes. This was on a 20bbl brewhouse running 24/7, it was the only way we could stay on schedule, never noticed any loss of conversion. The malt that's in use worldwide is modified enough that enzyme conversion is done within a matter of a few minutes, so by allowing 35 minutes, between the mash rest and vorlauf, we had allowed more than enough time.
                    Jason Schlebach
                    Pelican Brewing Company
                    Tillamook, Oregon


                    • #11
                      Has anyone tried this short of a mash with low DP malt such as maris otter?


                      • #12
                        Continuous conversion

                        On our infusion system, we never get over about 160- 162F and assume that conversion continues throughout the sparge and entire runoff.

                        We mash as long as it takes to heat sparge water in our kettle, which is sometimes only 10-15 mins. I have never seen a difference in efficiency related to how long the "mash" is conducted.

                        Our efficiency hovers at 85-90% with most at 88%.

                        I have not seen any difference with Maris Otter versus 2 Row in time/efficiency in conversion in our process. I will say that we recently switched to 100% Weyermann BoPils malt for our Pilsner as opposed to blending the regular Wey Pils in and we have seen a drop in efficiency of about 4%.


                        • #13
                          I can't speak for Marris Otter but we used 2row and various specialties from Briess as well as various malts from Weyermann with our process.
                          Jason Schlebach
                          Pelican Brewing Company
                          Tillamook, Oregon


                          • #14
                            Haha this is why I always get a kick out of homebrew/nano setups where the guy's all "Check out my sweet HERMS!"
                            Uh huh.
                            And are you using severely undermodified malt in a mash tun the size of a swimming pool?
                            So you realize conversion is basically over in a couple minutes right? And you're mostly just wasting time?
                            You also realize that a percent or two increase in efficiency will save you about 50 cents?
                            Well at least you have disposable time and income. Say, does that mean your fermenters are glycol jacketed too? Or in a controlled fridge or something?

                            One guy just could not grasp that at 10bbls not only did we not have a RIMS/HERMS, we don't need or want one.

                            We recently changed the speed on our auger so it takes about 20 minutes to dough in, instead of the 10 we'd been doing. The mix and liquor/grist ratio, not to mention the temperature, has been much better, less stirring and more letting the hydrator do the work. Plus conversion is mostly over by the time we're done. Short rest just to help the bed settle, then 15 minute vorlauf and we're good to go.
                            Russell Everett
                            Co-Founder / Head Brewer
                            Bainbridge Island Brewing
                            Bainbridge Island, WA


                            • #15
                              Isn't there more going on in the mash than the conversion of starch into sugar? Enzymes also break long chain sugars into simpler sugars. Any thoughts or (even better) research on the time it takes for that to happen?
                              --Dean Brundage
                              Owner / Unscrambler of Eggs
                              Blake's Steaks Sandwich Shop
                              (650) 823-3389