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**Valleybrew** · 10-31-2006, 08:22 PM

What yeast are you using? if it is fairly flocculant (ie. English) you could probably just harvest what you need from the cone without impacting the IPA ferment significantly. I have had to harvest early a few times and have not had any problems.

**DancingCamel** · 10-31-2006, 09:57 PM

We're using fermentis us56 but I can never get it to flocc until I crash the temp. Checked the cone yesterday but didn't get much and I can see that yeast are still in suspension. Since I'm drawing the 30 gallons from the cone, I guess whatever has flocced will be picked up in the 30 gallons.

I should add that I have no equipment to test yeast count other than my tastebuds (somewhat reliable but not very precise)

**Valleybrew** · 10-31-2006, 10:11 PM

Wow you do have a challenge, 1 BBL sounds like a bit on the high side for adding to a 10 BBL batch. I would go on the lower side 1/2 BBL, start the ferment on the warm side (upper end of spec) until Krausen is reached and then scale temp back slowly to target temp. It might start a little slow at first but once it gets going all shouuld be well. Good Luck.

**Michael Murphy** · 11-01-2006, 01:48 AM

you dont need 30 gallons of yeast to ferment a 10bbl batch, its way too much. If your using a fresh slurry 5 gallons would be plenty. That could be the reason for your flocculation problems.

If your fermenters are conical, you should see what you can get, If its currently fermententing then the yeast may be a bit beery, but it will be vaiable, if it doesnt start in 15hrs, then repitch the same again.

I see your sing a dry yeast to ferment, you should keep a few extra on hand since it stores fairly easy. I dont think you should reuse dry yeast so many times over. It has a tendency to get infected.

**tarmadilo** · 11-01-2006, 04:09 AM

I think he's saying he has an IPA fermenting that hasn't flocculated much yet, and so he's gonna take 30 gallons of that fermenting wort and pitch it into the new batch.

I don't have much of a clue what amount would be under/over pitching, myself...

Sorry!

Tim

**Dancing Camel** · 11-01-2006, 10:33 PM

Thanks Tim for clarifying - I guess my English is not so goodly anymore

In the end, we brought over about 20 gallons of IPA, set temp to 72 and knocked out the stout with a little more O2 than usual. When I get in today we should know if we'll have beer.

Mike - I wasn't stocking up on the fermentis because I really wasn't that happy with it. My US56 doesn't flocc, and the T58 gave off some really nasty sulphur in my Witbiers.

Keep you posted on our India Pale Stout.

David

**Michael Murphy** · 11-02-2006, 01:36 AM

Its unfortunate your in that part of the world where there isnt access to yeast labs, you could have it shipped but it would be very expensive. I dont like to use dry yeasts, you may try a wyeast BOP smack pack and use wort to step them up. If you pitch right and brew frequently you can get many generations out of them.

Try out Wyeast, ask them how much to ship a slurry? you'll taste the differnece

**aswissbrewer** · 11-03-2006, 12:52 PM

Infected dry yeast

Originally posted by Michael Murphy

you dont need 30 gallons of yeast to ferment a 10bbl batch, its way too much. If your using a fresh slurry 5 gallons would be plenty. That could be the reason for your flocculation problems.

If your fermenters are conical, you should see what you can get, If its currently fermententing then the yeast may be a bit beery, but it will be vaiable, if it doesnt start in 15hrs, then repitch the same again.

I see your sing a dry yeast to ferment, you should keep a few extra on hand since it stores fairly easy. I dont think you should reuse dry yeast so many times over. It has a tendency to get infected.

Micheal
Do you mean dry yeasts tend to be infected when you get them?
Basically they shouldn't have any other tendency to get infected than other yeasts sources once they have been cropped and porperly stored-repitched.

**Michael Murphy** · 11-03-2006, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by aswissbrewer

Micheal
Do you mean dry yeasts tend to be infected when you get them?
Basically they shouldn't have any other tendency to get infected than other yeasts sources once they have been cropped and porperly stored-repitched.

From my understanding, and I have used dry yeasts without infection is that they arent to be reused more than a few times. I have no documentation of a study of this, Just the fact that it isnt packaged and stored in a perfect environment, it has higher probability to mutate, or have some bacteria along with it. I would bet that fresh yeast from a lab would last longer and work better with proper care and pitching....
I change my yeast out 1 time a year with no problems going on 20,000 hl of beer, (I brew about 12 times per week though).
I understand tht David (Dancing Camel) insnt in a location where he can readily find fresh yeast on top of the kosher issue, but I believe he will do better with a fresh yeast and if he nurtures it it will serve him many brews, and become a minimal cost issue.

**RobZamites** · 11-03-2006, 01:54 PM

*shrug*, I repitched Safale S-04 for about 10 generation without any issues at all. Then again, I'm an anal-retentive, uber-paranoid yeast wrangler.

**DancingCamel** · 11-04-2006, 10:45 AM

First the happy update on our stout - about 10 hours after knockout the airlock was spittin like an angry camel so apparently our 20 gallons had enough yeast in suspension to do the job.

That our IPA still had so much yeast in suspension after 8 days and 60% attenuation is what bothers me. I don't know if it's Fermentis or just these strains that tend to misbehave. I'm going to give Fermentis SO4 and S33 a chance before I move on. Any opinions on S33 or SO4 for a witbier would be helpful.

Thanks for all the feedback and leads on yeast labs.

David

**Rosie** · 11-09-2006, 02:46 AM

Hey Guys,

You may have seen my previous thread about repitching some slurry....Well, looks like I'm in the same situation as Dancing Camel....they yeast wasn't quite done and still in suspension...so I don't have a thick slurry to use and brew day is tomorrow...

I have transferred the beer to sanitised Cornies, so planning on this:

I'm brewing 7hl of beer and planning to taking 2 cornies (approx .4hl) of fermenting beer to transfer onto, then pray hard to the yeast Gods.

I think this is the same ratio applied by Dancing Camel...though I could double it...

What do you think?

Cheers,

**Dancing Camel** · 11-10-2006, 01:03 AM

Hi Rosie -

It would be helpful if you gave more particulars - what type of beer is fermenting, starting gravity, gravity @ collection and type of yeast. Also note that for added insurance, we pulled from the bottom of our conical so if there was anything that did flocculate it wound up in the new beer. Also, we oxygenated at 15 psi during knockout -1/2 bar higher than usual. Lastly, we started our ferment at 72 deg - 4 deg higher than the fermenting IPA.

Good luck!

David

**Dave Suds** · 11-10-2006, 05:30 AM

Active dry yeast

There is an excellent article about dry yeast in the october issue of "The Brewers gaurdian" addressing this subject. Microbial infection from dry yeast was certainly true for say a decade ago. But now the technology and drying process is much better. Fermentis reports <5 total bacteria and <1 wild yeast at 6x106 viable cells whereas Lallemand specify <1 bacteria or wild yeast per 106 viable cells. I have used Fermentis US56 for many generations without any issues at all. Although I do not use this yeast in my brewery. This is because I brew german styles only and find that wyeast suits my needs better.
David Meadows
Stockholm

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