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  • Forced Carbonation

    So, I'm fairly new at this and there seems to be two schools of thought on force carbonating from what I've read here - pressurize and wait or pressurize and vent. Given that I've got an 8 inch stone in the bottom of a 10 hl bright tank that I want to carbonate to 2.6 vols (Beer at approx 37 deg F) how is the time to reach equilibrium determined for the above to scenarios (ie, how long will this take)? Which would be the better method, apply 12 psi and wait or slowly vent out the CIP arm?

    My previous experience as a homebrewer was to apply 12 psi to the headspace of a keg and wait about a week but surely with a stone it shouldn't take that long.

    grs

  • #2
    Our procedure is to get the beer or soda down to about 29-30degrees F, pressurize the tank to 15psi, run CO2 in though the stone on the bottom of the tank at about 17-20 psi. We bleed off through the CIP arm into a bucket of sanitizer. It takes about 3-4 hours to reach CO2 volumes of 3.0. Cold beer carbonates quicker!

    Luck to ya'
    Dave
    Glacier Brewing Company
    406-883-2595
    info@glacierbrewing.com

    "who said what now?"

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    • #3
      Try feeding in 14 psi into the stone and checking it in the morning. Seems to work for me under similar circumstances.

      The feed & bleed technique helps scrub out some hop aroma and possibly some head retention but generally works well if you're in a pinch.

      Comment


      • #4
        I guess I'm wondering the best way to tell if it's done and how long it should take (approximately). I can still hear some hissing in the pressure regulator but I probably have a slow leak somewhere in the line or at the valve manifold. I don't have any equipment to check the level other than tasting it and pouring from the sample valve just results in a glass of foam.

        If I apply the pressure without venting will it absorb overnight? In two days? 5 days? How rapidly does CO2 absorb into the beer? Is the slight hissing likely a leak somewhere or is a result of the CO2 slowly absorbing into the beer?

        Lotsa questions from a n00b. lol.

        grs

        Comment


        • #5
          If you are trying to sample the disolved CO2 off your port you need a pig tail to give the beer some distance to equalize. Pigtail = a small diameter coil of stailess steel pipe that clamps on your tanks sample port.

          It will always be different times. Temps vary, volume will vary, heavier beers will not absorb in the same time as lighter styles. In my experience.

          Let me add another school of thought, check out a pin point carbonator. They are expensive, but worth it. But if you can not afford a Zahm, I am guessing you can not afford a pin point. My advise is to get your hands on a pigtail.
          Last edited by BrewinLou; 08-13-2007, 07:03 PM.
          Joel Halbleib
          Partner / Zymurgist
          Hive and Barrel Meadery
          6302 Old La Grange Rd
          Crestwood, KY
          www.hiveandbarrel.com

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          • #6
            Listen to Joel. New Zahms run into the thousands, used ones are rare. Get a Perlick faucet and a pig tail. LEARN what your beer tastes (and feels) like when it is at a point of carbonation YOU like. I cut my teeth at a micro in Colorado where we tested the carbonation by tasting it every morning. Nothin' like beer in the morn!
            Of course, get a Zahm!

            Prost!
            Dave
            Glacier Brewing Company
            406-883-2595
            info@glacierbrewing.com

            "who said what now?"

            Comment


            • #7
              The "pigtail" Joel references is actually called a Proof Coil

              I have both the five coil and the 15 coil units. Seems like I paid around $120.00 each.
              Cheers & I'm out!
              David R. Pierce
              NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
              POB 343
              New Albany, IN 47151

              Comment


              • #8
                CO2 level

                We simply circulate our beer with a pump and a carbonation stone at around 25 psi. Start with a top pressure of 8 psi on the beer in the tank and when the tank reaches 10 psi it should be good. We aim for about 2.6 on our final bottling level. A final taste is always the best judge. Hope this helps
                P.S. This takes about 1 hour on 60 bbl at 35 F.

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                • #9
                  addition to post

                  75 barrel bright tanks

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                  • #10
                    beertje46, which "pigtail" do you recommend, the 5 coil or 15 coil?
                    Cheers,
                    Chad

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                    • #11
                      The go-by-taste approach will only work for a brewpub setting. If you are kegging your beer for other restaurants and bars, do yourself a big favor and get a Zahm. The 9 PM call on a Friday night when your beer is pouring all foam because you overcarbonated it, it ain't much fun.
                      Linus Hall
                      Yazoo Brewing
                      Nashville, TN
                      www.yazoobrew.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by dogfishqc
                        beertje46, which "pigtail" do you recommend, the 5 coil or 15 coil?
                        Cheers,
                        Chad
                        The fifteen. It has higher resistance and will reach the bottom of a growler for that take-out research.
                        Cheers & I'm out!
                        David R. Pierce
                        NABC & Bank Street Brewhouse
                        POB 343
                        New Albany, IN 47151

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Thanks for the help guys. I did up a makeshift pigtail and will have to pick up the proof coil. When my cash flow isn't as negative as it is right now I do plan on getting something better.

                          grs

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My normal method is to apply pressure to the stone, but just enough that CO2 begins flowing. Then I gradually increase that pressure as the head pressure increases. I keep the regulator set to about 5 PSI above the pressure that's needed to get CO2 to flow.

                            Once the head pressure is at the equilibrium point (about 14 psi at 4C for 2.7V) for the amount of CO2 I want, I move the CO2 hose to the headspace and just hold that pressure until I'm ready to use the beer. I find that if I do this slowly over at least 24 hours it works well.

                            It's a little slower than the venting method, but a lot quicker than the head pressure method, and it wastes less CO2 and preserves hop aroma and head retention.

                            That said, if I need a beer ready quickly, I'm not too adverse to the venting method either! The trick with that is to never let the head pressure exceed the equilibrium pressure lest you overcarb the beer.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Woolsocks View Post
                              My normal method is to apply pressure to the stone, but just enough that CO2 begins flowing. Then I gradually increase that pressure as the head pressure increases. I keep the regulator set to about 5 PSI above the pressure that's needed to get CO2 to flow.

                              Once the head pressure is at the equilibrium point (about 14 psi at 4C for 2.7V) for the amount of CO2 I want, I move the CO2 hose to the headspace and just hold that pressure until I'm ready to use the beer. I find that if I do this slowly over at least 24 hours it works well.

                              It's a little slower than the venting method, but a lot quicker than the head pressure method, and it wastes less CO2 and preserves hop aroma and head retention.

                              That said, if I need a beer ready quickly, I'm not too adverse to the venting method either! The trick with that is to never let the head pressure exceed the equilibrium pressure lest you overcarb the beer.
                              Hey woolsocks,
                              I realize this is an old thread, but I'm trying to understand your carbing method. You apply 5 psi above wetting pressure and wait until you reach 14psi of head pressure? I guess you lost me when you said you slowly raise the pressure. Do you mean you start out at wetting pressure and then Gradually raise to 5?

                              Thanks!
                              Tim

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