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Cannot get particle free lauter tun run off

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  • Cannot get particle free lauter tun run off

    Hi,

    We have a three vessel brew house, mcv, lt and kettle wp. Bedloading with dry grist is about 170 - 190 kg/m2. We vorlauf for 5 min and after the wort starts clearing we start collecting. During the first few hundred litres the wort gets crystal clear but throughout the whole runoff these fines you see in the video make it through the false floor. Unfortunately you can hardly see it in the video because the particles are so small but it looks like a snow storm flowing through the sight glass:



    Raking does not increase particle flow up to 9cm above the false floor. Below 8cm the turbidity increases slightly and below 5cm we see coarser particles come through. Last brew we compacted the bed really tight to get a better filtration effect and the wort was clearer than ever but still with these super fines in it.

    I cant seem to find a solution on this. Another brewer who operates the same system has the same issue. I first thought that they are making it through the gaps where the false bottom does not fully seal with the vessel wall but the other brewer does not have these gaps and still he is seeing the fines.

    Any help is greatly appreciated

    Cheers
    Matthias

  • #2
    A 5 min vorlauf seems very short to me. I would typically be in the 15-30 min range before beginning run off. Is the particulate causing you issue? Are you noticing astringency from tannins? I have found some particulate does not cause any issues in my boils and that it binds with the hot break or drops in the whirlpool, so never have had a problem with a small amount. If it is a problem for you, you could try a coarser grind in the mill setting.

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    • #3
      Clear wort

      I'm not sure what the worry is about the particles? Without seeing your whole set up it's hard to identify. I vorlauf for a minimum of 30 minutes. I also let my wort collect in a wort grant and pump from it. Maybe you're pulling too hard with the pump directly from the mash tun? Aren't you able to get crystal clear beer anyway after cold/hot break, whirlpool, trub, fermenter settlement, and then cold crashing?

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      • #4
        The coarsness of the grist does not matter. Fine or coars, these fines make it through. I started to pull really hard on the bed to compact it more and get a better filtration effect which worked in regards of clarity.I Increased the vorlauf pump speed and this gave me very bright first worts. During collection I redice it again. Out of nowwhere thete is a phase where the wort turns really hazy and loads of coars particles come through. I usually stop collecting at that point, deep cut and vorlauf again but I have no clue why this would happen in the first place. I think there is another thread that deals with exactly this issue but does not suggest a solution.
        I do not know if the fines drop out in the WP. The WP is a different story because the impeller is beating up the hot break and it takes ages for it to settle if it settles at all. I just have in my mind that you need to get particle free run offs and everything else is bad...I do not taste any astringency in my beers though. But then, I have no idea how they would taste with a particle free run off.

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        • #5
          We were having similar problems with our 15 bbl. vintage Specific Mechanical system. We (presently) vorlouf for ~30 mins. at which time the wort is not necessarily bright, but not cloudy. At about 8 bbl. into the kettle (66% of kettle full for those recipes) the mash tun would release a flurry of small particles...looked like a snow globe. By about 10 bbls. it would be running clear again. We stuck a 3.5" standpipe in the MT (maybe pulling 2" off MT bottom) and that solved the problem. I suspect old, ill fitting MT screens and sparge related wort density change were the causes.

          The cloudy wort concerned me, but, like UnFermentable says, I never detected any clarity or astringency issues (I don't think we were pulling over husk material anyhow.) I'm going to pull 100ml settling samples throughout the next vorlouf to get a better idea what the wort looks like in the 15-20 min. range. I recall Dick Morris mentioning only recirculate long enough to clear the foundation water. For us, with 65 gal of foundation water and a ~4 gpm runoff, that's about 16 mins.

          I stopped pumping the whirlpool in favor of hand paddling. It seems the break settles better if we don't beat it up. Sounds like you're on a larger system and that might not be an option.
          Clarke Pelz
          Cynosure Brewing

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by cpelz View Post
            We were having similar problems with our 15 bbl. vintage Specific Mechanical system. We (presently) vorlouf for ~30 mins. at which time the wort is not necessarily bright, but not cloudy. At about 8 bbl. into the kettle (66% of kettle full for those recipes) the mash tun would release a flurry of small particles...looked like a snow globe. By about 10 bbls. it would be running clear again. We stuck a 3.5" standpipe in the MT (maybe pulling 2" off MT bottom) and that solved the problem. I suspect old, ill fitting MT screens and sparge related wort density change were the causes.

            The cloudy wort concerned me, but, like UnFermentable says, I never detected any clarity or astringency issues (I don't think we were pulling over husk material anyhow.) I'm going to pull 100ml settling samples throughout the next vorlouf to get a better idea what the wort looks like in the 15-20 min. range. I recall Dick Morris mentioning only recirculate long enough to clear the foundation water. For us, with 65 gal of foundation water and a ~4 gpm runoff, that's about 16 mins.

            I stopped pumping the whirlpool in favor of hand paddling. It seems the break settles better if we don't beat it up. Sounds like you're on a larger system and that might not be an option.
            We also think that it is due to density changes because it appears exactly at transition from first wort to sparge. When we put so much foundation water into the lt that at mash transfer the grains floats away we do not see it happening. It's a really strange one.

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