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  • Spunding "too early"?

    Hi everybody,

    The theory is to close the spunding valve approximately 1°Plato above the final gravity. Is it a problem if you close the valve before…even at the beginning of the fermentation? The spunding valve should regulate the pressure but I do not know if it would affect negatively the fermentation process.

    Greeting of the Swiss Alps!

    Michaël

  • #2
    I don't have an answer, but am interested in hearing what others have to say about it. For example, would DMS be more of a problem, since it might not be blown off with the CO2 as easily? Or any other off-flavours related to yeast stress?

    Comment


    • #3
      Hopefully you have removed the majority of DMS through boiling.

      3 things primarily in my mind. I am an advocate for spunding, but usually do it right after peak activity.

      1 - The off gassing produced by initial fermentation can be more than the spunding valve can vent, causing over pressurization of the vessel. Yes the pressure relief may be set at an appropriate level, but the gas production can be more volume than can be effectively vented second for second. Also, if there is blow off material from high krausen, it can clog a spunding device and cause a dangerous situation. By waiting until after high krausen you reduce that risk significantly.

      2 - Sulphur compounds. Usually they form early and are scrubbed out during the initial off gassing. They are not always present, but certain strains can be high producers. I personally like a slight bit of sulphur in certain lagers or hefeweizens myself, however it can obviously cause problems quite easily.

      3 - Yeast health can be impacted by osmotic stress, and fermenting under pressure does not particularly benefit any desirable yeast activity.

      Spunding immediately would risk stalled fermentation, deteriorated yeast health, excessive sulphur compounds, or possibly vessel integrity. Spunding late will risk under carbonation, and a need to introduce gas, possibly causing a time delay. To me personally, the risk-reward factor shows no benefit to trying to shave a day or two off the processing time at risk of product integrity.

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      • #4
        What Unfermentable said.

        Why would you do that? There is no upside. Only downsides. Normal SOP will treat you right.
        Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

        Comment


        • #5
          We sound just about everything at our brewery, but we do it with 1-2P left in Fermentation (which I believe is typical and correct SOP).

          That said there are some yeasts that you shouldn't spund. We learned that the hard way with a Hefeweizen strain that ended up with a ton of sulphur and we could never fully eliminate. So when we brew with strains that give off a lot of ester and phenols we just play it safe and forgo spunding on those brands. We typically only spund straight clean ale yeasts and lagers.

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          • #6
            And I've had other experience...

            WB-06 spunds just dandy for us. Although I use an unorthodox yeast pitch/fermentation. Sulfur? No way.
            Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by gitchegumee View Post
              WB-06 spunds just dandy for us. Although I use an unorthodox yeast pitch/fermentation. Sulfur? No way.
              I'd love to hear more about your methods with that yeast. It definitely got a bit farty on us. I gave it up after too many sleepless nights...it took 6 weeks to get even near a haze for us. Also, hope you've gotten the memo about it being a diastaticus strain.

              Cheers,
              jeff
              Jeff Rosenmeier (Rosie)
              Chairman of the Beer
              Lovibonds Brewery Ltd
              Henley-on-Thames, Englandshire
              W: www.lovibonds.com
              F: LovibondsBrewery
              T: @Lovibonds

              Comment


              • #8
                There are not many things

                Spent years developing a proper profile for a real authentic German wheat beer. This yeast does it for me perfectly. But there are a lot of unorthodox techniques that are used to squeak out the flavor profile that I want with this yeast. Sorry but this is one of the few things that I wont divulge to the entire world for free!
                Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Rosie View Post
                  I'd love to hear more about your methods with that yeast. It definitely got a bit farty on us. I gave it up after too many sleepless nights...it took 6 weeks to get even near a haze for us. Also, hope you've gotten the memo about it being a diastaticus strain.

                  Cheers,
                  jeff
                  Ah shit. That explains why one of the beer is always pouring foamy. We dont filter or pasteurize either. Damn. Sorbates? Is that gonna work on a beer with diastaticus? Ugh. Its part of a yeast mix, love the esters, not sure how wed replicate it otherwise

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by gitchegumee View Post
                    Spent years developing a proper profile for a real authentic German wheat beer. This yeast does it for me perfectly. But there are a lot of unorthodox techniques that are used to squeak out the flavor profile that I want with this yeast. Sorry but this is one of the few things that I wont divulge to the entire world for free!
                    No worries. I tried a lot of things, but in the end it was much easier to drop that yeast like a stone and use a better one...Munich Classic has my vote for a dry now...
                    Jeff Rosenmeier (Rosie)
                    Chairman of the Beer
                    Lovibonds Brewery Ltd
                    Henley-on-Thames, Englandshire
                    W: www.lovibonds.com
                    F: LovibondsBrewery
                    T: @Lovibonds

                    Comment

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