Fermentation concern

[Growler]

Hi,

I have a Cream Ale fermenting, split into to batches and brewed on 26 Dec.

The brewhouse numbers for batch was spot on and exactly the same as previous batches. US05 is the yeast, same brick split with exactly the same weight of yeast used in each tank.

Alas I have a concern with the 1st pitch which I have never experienced as an amateur or pro brewer.

1st pitch transferred and yeast pitched at 19 degrees, 5 days on absolutely no fermentation gas (CO2) the batch is dead still. and the measured numbers today are;

1.013 Gravity

4.15 PH

20.5 C Wort temp

Tastes a little dry and possibly a tad sour


2nd pitch transferred and yeast pitched at 19 degrees, 5 days on active fermentation, good gas bubbling and the numbers today are:

1.023 Gravity

4.35 PH

20.4 C Wort temp

Tastes as expected, a little sweet and clean, no noticeable faults.

Questions:

Should I be worried about the 1st pitch?

US05 from the same brick was used in both pitches why would one produce gas and the other not produce any gas (dead still)?

With no visible/active fermentation why is #1 significantly lower than #2?

Could the be a foreign bacteria/infection in the 1st pitch?

Is there something else going on?

Both batches are orders for expected delivery before the middle of January…. I’m worried that I may have to re-brew #1.

Any thoughts/suggestions gratefully accepted, thank you

Cheers, Brew Strong

[dick murton]

Batch 1 has fermented out, pretty much completely and because it is still at top heat, has purged off pretty much all the CO2. Batch 2 is a slow fermentation, hence the higher pH and higher gravity. It is the second one to get concerned about, not the first. The first one should be cooled ASAP and the yeast removed. The second one would probably benefit from rousing with a paddle or inert gas. Its a bit late to add more yeast, though this might be necessary to get the PG down. Rouse, and check the gravity in a few hours time. If it hasn't dropped at all. then I would be tempted to add a little more yeast say 1/3 to 1/2 pitch worth, activated in a sugar solution before adding and mixing in.

My guess is that the PG on number one is somewhat high. If so, I would drop your mash temperature by half a deg C (1 deg F) , and lower again on subsequent brews if still too high.

[dick murton]

Tried replying earlier, but the system timed out a few times, presumably website maintenance going on. And now I find it accepted the first post - so apologies to anyone getting bored with this - happy for admin to delete a copy
Batch 1 has fermented out, pretty much completely and because it is still at top heat, has purged off pretty much all the CO2. Batch 2 is a slow fermentation, hence the higher pH and higher gravity. It is the second one to get concerned about, not the first. The first one should be cooled ASAP and the yeast removed. The second one would probably benefit from rousing with a paddle or inert gas. Its a bit late to add more yeast, though this might be necessary to get the PG down. Rouse, and check the gravity in a few hours time. If it hasn't dropped at all. then I would be tempted to add a little more yeast say 1/3 to 1/2 pitch worth, activated in a sugar solution before adding and mixing in.

My guess is that the PG on number one is somewhat high. If so, I would drop your mash temperature by half a deg C (1 deg F) , and lower again on subsequent brews if still too high.

[Growler]

Thank you Dick for your detailed reply.

Q: I’ve never had a brew not produce some level of gas, batch #1 had absolutely nothing, not one skerrick, yet the numbers dropped normally each day?

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[dick murton]

Hmm. Even if it was aerobic respiration by yeast or bacteria, there would be CO2 evolved. Might be worth comparing yeast crops - if the first one was respiring aerobically, the crop would be much larger. However, I think it has simply fermented far faster and you have missed the CO2 evolution. Ales at those temperatures can ferment out in less than 48 hours, though looking at the pH, I doubt if it was as fast as that. The second one is slow as far as ales are concerned - it should definitely have finished by now. with a starting OG of 1050, I would expect a time to final gravity of around 60 - 70 hours. From your surprise, it doesn't sound as if you are checking the gravities regularly - ideally two or three times daily, especially in the brewery startup phase whilst you are getting to know how things behave throughout the brewery.

[Growler]

Thank you Dick,

I check morning and night on week days and three times on Sat & Sun.

What happened here was, on brew day it was 43 degrees in the brewery (almost killed me) then I had to return to my day job the next day. Both tanks were set a 19.5 but for some reason batch #1 fermented differently.

I up’ed the temp on batch one to 20.5 because the was no action after 24 hours, then I got movement but no bubbling/gas just numbers going down quicker than batch #2.

Like you said I may have just missed it.

Thank you for your sound advice, cheers

[dick murton]

43 ? Yeah, not good working conditions. What's your FV insulation like if you get those sorts of temperatures? I think I would be looking for 3 inches PU foam. The guys over here still make FVs without insulation, and expect accurate consistent ferms. A bit different for the likes of Heineken who sometimes put 200 hl + vessels in a cool room.

[dick murton]

43 ? Yeah, not good working conditions. What's your FV insulation like if you get those sorts of temperatures? I think I would be looking for 3 inches PU foam. The guys over here still make FVs without insulation, and expect accurate consistent ferms. A bit different for the likes of Heineken who sometimes put 2000 hl + vessels in a cool room.

[Growler]

43 ? Yeah, not good working conditions. What's your FV insulation like if you get those sorts of temperatures? I think I would be looking for 3 inches PU foam. The guys over here still make FVs without insulation, and expect accurate consistent ferms. A bit different for the likes of Heineken who sometimes put 2000 hl + vessels in a cool room.

The brewery and tanks were secondhand when we purchased them. The spec card for the unitanks claim that the insulation 50mm (2”) they hold very good temp across all four tanks, balanced with the glycol system.

Was 43 again yesterday, normal summer temp is mid 30s, we’re looking at a Evaporative Cooler or Air Conditioner to help on these unusually hot days.

Batch #2 finished and the numbers almost the same.

Thank you again for your time and advice, Cheers.


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[MesseNoire]

A little late to this but one other possibility on tank 1 is that you didn't have a tight seal somewhere or a leaky PRV, something along those lines. Are the FVs top man ways?