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beer stone everywhere!

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  • beer stone everywhere!

    Help,

    Replaced old brewmaster and am cleaning up the mess, The tanks were put in use in late 1995. Once the tanks are dry after PBW/ ACID 5 WASH, white stone deposits are visible in both FVs and BBTs. What is a good method for cleaning this stone from the tanks and preventing it down the road?

  • #2
    Sounds like the previous people have been using caustic without adequate amounts, possibly any sequesterents iat all in the caustic. Use a reputable blended caustic from now on. If you are in a very hard water area you would benefit from getting your supplier to check that the levels of additives are adequate to ensure the calcium salts are not redeposited.

    To remove the stuff, unfortunately my expereince is that if the tanks are small, scraping the wretched stuff of is the quickest way forward. Otherwise use a special clean of hot detergent with loads of additive in. Some suppliers are able to provide special descaling material, follow their advice. Acid doesn't normally touch it as the scale is a mix of calcium phosphate and other complex calcium salts

    One word of warning. If you don't remove all the scale at once, you often get a short increase in infection, as the bugs tend to hide in the scale and are then exposed to the fresh wort / beer. In other words descale thoroughly the first time.

    Have fun

    Dick
    dick

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    • #3
      We have used EDTA here with very positive results. Add it to caustic. It will probably rip all the scale off your tanks. If you can't get that try sodium glucinate. Any local chemical company should be able to get these for you.

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      • #4
        Yeah, Thanks for reminding me. The reason we didn't use strong EDTA or similar was because the vessels were open copper fermenters. EDTA and copper don't mix, neither do open fermenters and CIP without temporary covers which we didn't have.

        Just a thought though. If you are forced into hand descaling tanks, make damned sure they are completely free of CO2 before you get in. I expect there are tank entry regulations similar to those existing in the UK. So use CIP if possible.

        Cheers
        dick

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        • #5
          Hold on people.. white scale sounds like caustic scale not beer stone.
          This is caused by either water conditions or caustic/pbw not followed by an acid wash.
          Ive had luck with a spray bottle, phos acid, and a plastic bristle "bath tub brush", this type of brush shouldnt damage the surface of the tank.
          Nothing will work better removing and preventing these deposits than a regular acid wash after your caustic/ pbw.
          Remember these deposits are mostly found in blind spots, spots your CIP isnt hitting properly, you need to do the cleaning yourself in such spots.
          Unfortunately this may take you several regular cleanings to get control of.
          If you are not seeing problems in your beer, dont be afraid to use these tanks while you continue to work on the deposits (depending on how bad it is)
          The first and most important task at hand is to figure out how they developed and how to prevent them.
          Cheers
          Alan

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          • #6
            Hold on a Minute....Doesn't putting yourself into a tank with a SPRAY bottle of phos acid and a toilet brush sound a wee bit dangerous?????

            I hope you talk to a chemical rep (Have you called Charlie Tally from Five Star??) before you listen to any of us on this forum. They are the experts on this subject.

            Good Luck

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            • #7
              Totally agree with hoppyguys last comment. The key to it once you have removed it is to stop it developing again. Caustic forms a soluble scale. If you have hard water tehn you can develop scale by a couple of means.

              Firstly if there are insufficent additives to keep the mineral salts from the water and beer in solution / suspension (where previously precipitated). A well balanced detergent should resolve this problem.

              Secondly if you have high levels of calcium corbonate or bicarbonate in your water, this is often precipitated as hard water scale when you hit a hot vessel with cold water. This precipitate gets all sorts of other material ingrained in it, which is what makes it such a pig to remove. So Mr Brady's comment re an acid rinse after the post detergent rinse is true if this is the cause. A very dilute nitric acid wash will be fine. But you have to get the tanks clean in the first place. Don't use sulphuric acid - it will just turn it into insoluble gypsum !
              dick

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              • #8
                Toilet brush? Must be a Jersey brewery thing...

                A stiff bristle plastic brush is what I was describing.
                With standard confined space entry precautions, you should have safe enough conditions to enter an OPEN vessel.
                I would certainly research the last brewers cleaning practices and contact your chemical supplier for suggestions.
                If its caustic deposits or deposits from your water a removal of this sort followed by better cleaning/neutralizing practices than in years past should do the trick.

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