Beersmith Scaling

[HBC2193]

Hi,

I have 5-6 gallon batches that I would like to scale up to 5 or 10bbl brewhouse using Beersmith.

I'm pretty sure I ned to adjust hops utilization, dead space, efficiency, etc. in the equipment setup.

Can anyone provide some very basic adjustment tips or ratios.

Steve

[jcmcdowell]

Not sure I'll be much help. I went from 5-10g to 40g. I adjusted the hop utilization down incrementally until the apparent bitterness matches the IBU- not very scientific. Easier to estimate with a beer like a Pale. Mine is around 86% for pellets.

You just got to brew. Efficiency, temps, time, and technique can be worked out accurately after a few brews. Start with a lower efficiency estimate and shoot for an average ABV beer if you miss high you're ok.


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[d18daddy]

This might help you out:

http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php?board=23.0

Dead space, etc. will vary with your equipment. Your manufacture should be able to help you out with that.
I have my hop utilization set at 120%

[Bainbridge]

Find every parameter you can enter: dead space, tun weight, evaporation rate, etc, measure and enter everything you can. Hop utilization of 110-120%.

Then it just becomes...practice. Like, I know, that if I set my batch volume at a certain point, and efficiency at a certain point based on how many pounds of malt is going in, the beer's gravity will end up right about what I calculated. Does that mean that's our actual efficiency? Gods no. But it works as the fudge factor that gets us close.

[jbell71464]

I use Beersmith to scale up from 5-10gallon batches to 7 bbl. I agree with what others have said. Hop utilization for us is at 120%. I have found on some of our lower gravity beers with roasty components such as an ESB and Dry Stout, I had to up the dark grains in order to get the desired results. Usually about 10-15%.
I also don't really trust many of the calculations for desired gravities and such. I do find it helpful for strike water calculations as long as you dial in you equipment.

[scmorgan]

Butterness from the whirlpool is way off i reckon. I just use as a colour/gravity guide

[soia1138]

My two cents is get your equipment profile set correctly like others have said and most important get your true volumes squared away and Beersmith is spot on. My hop util is set at 113%, thats from comparison to lab results, this of course will vary from system to system. Gravity will be on if your volumes ie; batch volume and your total efficiency is entered correctly. Spend some time dialing it in and its a fantastic program honestly. As for whirlpool IBU contribution, I set to Steep/Whirlpool with a duration of 1 min which seems to be accurate from what I have experienced.

[CharlosCarlies]

My hop util is set at 113%

I know this is a common approach and I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem like the best way when considering what's actually contributing to the extra IBU's when scaling up: extended hot time in the kettle during whirlpool/KO.

We've kept our utilization at 100% and instead started treating whirlpool additions differently depending on what we get back from the lab. One of our core beers gets 100% of it's BU from the whirlpool, so fortunately that's helped us dial it in a bit. We also have a few beers that have no late additions at all and the standard Beersmith calculation (Tinseth) ends up being pretty much dead on in most cases.

We've learned to build our hop additions "backwards" by starting w/ the whirlpool and only adding enough bittering to get us where we want to be. Not saying this is the best or only way, but it's worked for us and I wanted to share another data point for you guys to consider.

[HBC2193]

Thanks

That is a great point. Thanks : )

I know this is a common approach and I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem like the best way when considering what's actually contributing to the extra IBU's when scaling up: extended hot time in the kettle during whirlpool/KO.

We've kept our utilization at 100% and instead started treating whirlpool additions differently depending on what we get back from the lab. One of our core beers gets 100% of it's BU from the whirlpool, so fortunately that's helped us dial it in a bit. We also have a few beers that have no late additions at all and the standard Beersmith calculation (Tinseth) ends up being pretty much dead on in most cases.

We've learned to build our hop additions "backwards" by starting w/ the whirlpool and only adding enough bittering to get us where we want to be. Not saying this is the best or only way, but it's worked for us and I wanted to share another data point for you guys to consider.

[barleyfreak]

I know this is a common approach and I may be wrong, but it doesn't seem like the best way when considering what's actually contributing to the extra IBU's when scaling up: extended hot time in the kettle during whirlpool/KO.

We've kept our utilization at 100% and instead started treating whirlpool additions differently depending on what we get back from the lab. One of our core beers gets 100% of it's BU from the whirlpool, so fortunately that's helped us dial it in a bit. We also have a few beers that have no late additions at all and the standard Beersmith calculation (Tinseth) ends up being pretty much dead on in most cases.

We've learned to build our hop additions "backwards" by starting w/ the whirlpool and only adding enough bittering to get us where we want to be. Not saying this is the best or only way, but it's worked for us and I wanted to share another data point for you guys to consider.

This brings up the question then about the > 100% utilization Beersmith allows you to input. It predates the ability in Beersmith to have IBUs calculated in the whirlpool. Was it intended to cover that? In other words, I have mine set at 120% AND I add/calculate a ton of IBUs from the whirlpool. I have not sent anything out to a lab, but taste testing, the beers are turning out how I want them. Just wondering if my IPA is really ~52 IBUs (at the 120% setting in Beersmith), or closer to 43.

[CharlosCarlies]

This brings up the question then about the > 100% utilization Beersmith allows you to input. It predates the ability in Beersmith to have IBUs calculated in the whirlpool. Was it intended to cover that? In other words, I have mine set at 120% AND I add/calculate a ton of IBUs from the whirlpool. I have not sent anything out to a lab, but taste testing, the beers are turning out how I want them. Just wondering if my IPA is really ~52 IBUs (at the 120% setting in Beersmith), or closer to 43.

Some good questions. Without testing I would think it would be hard to tell with any certainty. Even if your IPA really is exactly 52 IBU's, how certain can we be that your particular hop schedule didn't just happen to mesh well w/ the chosen Beersmith utilization number?

And just a heads up if any of yall are interested in getting your beers tested but have been turned off by the price, check out coastalsciencelabs.com. I'm pretty sure it's just one guy, but his prices are really, really good and the results at least appear to be accurate. A basic panel including ABV/ABW/IBU/SRM/pH is like $20. IBU testing by itself is $5 from what I remember. He's a little slow sometimes if you need a quick turnaround for label approvals, etc...but still worth checking out.