How do Brewers feel about hop transducer's?

[ImperialPint]

We're looking at doing some really fun things in the next few months, and one of those things were putting beer through a hop transducer. My only worry is, how do brewers feel about this? Our biggest distributor (who will go unnamed) loved the idea, but I personally wouldn't want to make anyone mad. Especially the guys, who I'm trying to get beer from. Any "laws" pertaining I should be worried about?

Wouldn't want to make the guys at Double Mountain mad, by throwing Cluster F* through Mangoes, Ginger and Lemon. (Just an example).

Thanks,
J

[briangaylor]

I wouldnt mind - I dont hold a brewery accountable anytime a bar does anything to the beer to try and enhance it. I went to a fall event last year in which Dogfish Punkin was run through a bourbon soaked pumpkin. On paper it sounded great but man something didnt work with the flavors for me. I placed no blame on Dogfish Head. It did make me hesitant to try this bars future experiments (they do stuff like this all the time, and upcharge for it).


Brian

[ImperialPint]

I wouldnt mind - I dont hold a brewery accountable anytime a bar does anything to the beer to try and enhance it. I went to a fall event last year in which Dogfish Punkin was run through a bourbon soaked pumpkin. On paper it sounded great but man something didnt work with the flavors for me. I placed no blame on Dogfish Head. It did make me hesitant to try this bars future experiments (they do stuff like this all the time, and upcharge for it).


Brian

Thanks Brian,

Yeah, that's one thing we try to avoid as much up-charging. I'm buying a Randall from DFH. Just for personal use, but I decided it may be a good invest for the shop. If we were to do it, lots of in-house experimenting would happen first to capture all of the appropriate flavors. Bourbon Pumpkin sounds like something I would avoid in the long run anyways.

Do you happen to remember how much the up-charge was?

Cheers,
Jeff

[briangaylor]

This should be taken with a grain of salt as it was a long time ago, but I think they more or less just rounded up - so if it was $6.50 for a pint, the randall/special pint would be $7.

[Bainbridge]

"Hop Transducer"? Is that like a flux capacitor?

[panadero]

Don't cross the streams.

[ImperialPint]

"Hop Transducer"? Is that like a flux capacitor?

Randall.. A hop Randall..

[panadero]

Personally, I think they are fun. Used for hops, or anything you want. I recently had an Edmund Fitzgerald porter run through some dark roast coffee beans, and it was great. I have had stouts run through mint leaves... The possibilities are endless - though I wouldn't go the bourbon pumpkin route, some people would enjoy it. It is a great way to show how different flavors blend. I would avoid using beers that have some amount of delicacy - no Saison Dupont e.g. - but only because I get it so rarely, I want it in its original state. A beer that I can regularly drink will be my choice to augment.
I would not be offended if someone did this to my beer.
David

[Bainbridge]

Ah. A randall.

Way I see it you've got two parts to this, what the brewer thinks and what the salesperson thinks.

As a brewer, my personal opinion (perhaps unpopular) is that randalls are devices specifically engineered to ruin beer. Wonky carbonation, off flavors, none or too much of whatever flavor's supposedly being added, often unclean lines and canisters, the "hop" flavor people rave about is usually just nasty grassy chlorophyll stripped out of the hops by cold acidic beer passing through it... In the best case it won't add much if anything to the beer, and almost never have I had one where I went, wow, all that effort really made this a better beer drink thing. I think there's a lot of Emperor's New Clothes going on where people are predisposed to "liking" it because they feel like they're supposed to. And our county health department hates them BTW.

So, as a brewery, we don't own one. Ok, technically we do. We recently went to one of the big state beer festivals with a 'randall something!' theme. So I got a small galvanized bucket, drilled some holes and ran a Hose To Nowhere through it, made a false top that I covered in cotton balls and glitter, then made a sign for the side saying "Pixie Dust and Unicorn Dreams". Put dry ice in it so it made wispy vapors on that hot day. Boom: 'Randalled through Pixie Dust and Unicorn Dreams'. People'd be like "What's going through it?" and we'd say things like "The only limit is your imagination!" *insert rainbow hand movements*

As a salesman though, people just eat that #$&% up. So I can see why people do it. Hype and excitement is good, and if it sells more kegs then 'Huzzah for Randalls!'

[ImperialPint]

Ah. A randall.

Way I see it you've got two parts to this, what the brewer thinks and what the salesperson thinks.

As a brewer, my personal opinion (perhaps unpopular) is that randalls are devices specifically engineered to ruin beer. Wonky carbonation, off flavors, none or too much of whatever flavor's supposedly being added, often unclean lines and canisters, the "hop" flavor people rave about is usually just nasty grassy chlorophyll stripped out of the hops by cold acidic beer passing through it... In the best case it won't add much if anything to the beer, and almost never have I had one where I went, wow, all that effort really made this a better beer drink thing. I think there's a lot of Emperor's New Clothes going on where people are predisposed to "liking" it because they feel like they're supposed to. And our county health department hates them BTW.

So, as a brewery, we don't own one. Ok, technically we do. We recently went to one of the big state beer festivals with a 'randall something!' theme. So I got a small galvanized bucket, drilled some holes and ran a Hose To Nowhere through it, made a false top that I covered in cotton balls and glitter, then made a sign for the side saying "Pixie Dust and Unicorn Dreams". Put dry ice in it so it made wispy vapors on that hot day. Boom: 'Randalled through Pixie Dust and Unicorn Dreams'. People'd be like "What's going through it?" and we'd say things like "The only limit is your imagination!" *insert rainbow hand movements*

As a salesman though, people just eat that #$&% up. So I can see why people do it. Hype and excitement is good, and if it sells more kegs then 'Huzzah for Randalls!'

Exactly. The one thing I never want to do is "ruin" someone's beer. But then again, I would love to experiment and see if I can make something good, better. The only reason why this came up is I had a randall'd Imp Porter, ran through Baby Ruthes. It honestly was one of the most impressive beers I have had, the notes that were captured through the Randall brought up chocolate, salt and caramel and just made a fantastic beer. However I can see how you can easily mess it it up, by being over ambitious and running over-powering adjuncts through it. I'm all for "fresh-hopping" but I think most West Coast IPAs have the right amount of hops (or to much) to begin with.

But thank you for your input. I have a feeling most brewers feel that way.

Jeff

[nateo]

I had a randall'd Imp Porter, ran through Baby Ruthes. It honestly was one of the most impressive beers I have had

I believe it tasted good, but I wouldn't call that "beer." "Malt beverage," sure.

[soia1138]

I would agree with Russell, Randalls do "ruin" the beer. The very nature of altering the beer as it was presented to you by the brewer is in fact ruining the beer. Maybe people are not really aware of just how much work goes into every beer that is created. " A wizard is never late. He arrives precisely when he means to." Just as a brewers beer arrives precisely as he meant it to be, and it is the creators alone to alter. "I would love to experiment and see if I can make something good, better. " Since this post is based on opinion. It is mine that this statement, although well intentioned, borders on insulting. To claim that after all the sweat, hard work, and aching backs that you can make it better. Experimenting with making better beer is why the hobby of home brewing was invented.

To sum it up, the only thing a beer should be run through is a faucet. You wouldn't dare put a mustache on the Mona Lisa because you felt it could have been painted better? Extreme point illustration yes but it illustrates it none the less.

[ImperialPint]

I would agree with Russell, Randalls do "ruin" the beer. The very nature of altering the beer as it was presented to you by the brewer is in fact ruining the beer. Maybe people are not really aware of just how much work goes into every beer that is created. " A wizard is never late. He arrives precisely when he means to." Just as a brewers beer arrives precisely as he meant it to be, and it is the creators alone to alter. "I would love to experiment and see if I can make something good, better. " Since this post is based on opinion. It is mine that this statement, although well intentioned, borders on insulting. To claim that after all the sweat, hard work, and aching backs that you can make it better. Experimenting with making better beer is why the hobby of home brewing was invented.

To sum it up, the only thing a beer should be run through is a faucet. You wouldn't dare put a mustache on the Mona Lisa because you felt it could have been painted better? Extreme point illustration yes but it illustrates it none the less.

Ah that is the truth, spoke out of my hind-end on that one. Beer is perfect by design, and that is precisely why brewers make it that way and sell it that way. Though it wasn't to be insulting. The word "better" should be "better suited" for the audience. Especially where regions where people prefer one style of beer over another, in order to showcase and better the opinions about other styles, it may mean "ruining" the brewers interpretation. But I'm working from the selling end, not the creating end which was the point of this post. I need opinions and facts like this strictly to base the fact if it happens or not. People either love it or hate it, which I suppose what life is? Love and/or hate?

Jeff

[KTY]

I am a brewer and I think randalls can make some interesting flavors in beers, they just don't work well for (perhaps, ironically) hops. I use grapefruit in a randall for out IIPA and I really like the results. We have used pears and lightly crushed white pepper corns with our tripel with stunning results. Sure, I'd mostly rather prefer to just drink the beer straight up but as a diversion some randall additions can be fun and interesting (though I definitely agree that carbonation is a problem).

In the end, my recommendation is - do waht you want if you have bought the beer, it is yours. I would have personal reservations if you filled it with sour patch kids and served my belgian wit, but if it increases your sales have at it.

[CharlosCarlies]

I am a brewer and I think randalls can make some interesting flavors in beers, they just don't work well for (perhaps, ironically) hops. I use grapefruit in a randall for out IIPA and I really like the results. We have used pears and lightly crushed white pepper corns with our tripel with stunning results. Sure, I'd mostly rather prefer to just drink the beer straight up but as a diversion some randall additions can be fun and interesting (though I definitely agree that carbonation is a problem)

Agreed. We run a different Randall tap every week at our tastings and it's just one extra draw to get people to come back out. Novelty is a big part of why people drink craft, so adding variety in (reasonably) simple ways is always fun and helpful from a marketing stand-point.

With that said, it is ironic that hops are probably one of the things we use the least. Citrus zest and any kind of pepper usually works really well for us. We've also had great results w/ cacao nibs, coffee beans, and my favorite: toasted coconut. It does lead to wonky carbonation and the flavor levels are often all over the place depending on how long it's been running through the Randall and how fast you're pouring, but I just look at it as another fun tool in the tool box to learn how different flavors can work together.