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  • Sound deadoning for tap room

    More and more I go to these popular bars and restaurants and with a table of 4 to 6 there is no chance to have a conversation with anyone that isn't right beside you. It's driving me crazy.

    It's mostly crowd noise and then it's amplified when these places think they need to turn up the music to beat the crowd noise.

    Building the new taproom any advice from people to help this sort of thing. I've checked out a few thing on the Internet, fabric pictures that consume sound waves. Elaborate types of drywall (not in the cards for me). Sound deadening floating ceiling tiles. There's even sound deadoning paint!

    I'm sure many of these end up not reducing to their specs. Any ideas or feedback would be great.

  • #2
    We use these.

    http://www.atsacoustics.com/cat--ATS...nels--100.html

    They work pretty well. We hang them from the ceiling perpendicular to one another at the advice of a sound engineer friend of mine.

    Rich

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    • #3
      We did an exposed joist ceiling design in our taproom and it works great for sound and looks great.

      Comment


      • #4
        Acoustic panels

        The panels the post above mentions work great for us. I bought the raw fiberglass panels, built frames and wrapped them in burlap myself and saved a ton off the price. Very labor intensive though. You will need 10-25% of your total room surface area covered in these panels depending on the construction and contents of the room and how far you want to treat it.

        Comment


        • #5
          I own a recording studio as well as a brewpub and ambient noise is one of my pet peeves in restaurants. As others have mentioned, you can't go wrong with those acoustic panels. They're dead easy to make, though, by using Owens Corning 703 rigid insulation (same stuff as in the store-bought panels) and covering them in any fabric that you can breathe through, burlap being the cheapest by far. If you use burlap, be sure to get the fire-retardant version or do the fire-retardant application yourself. "Inspecta-Shield" works really well and is approved by many governmental agencies. As for the 703, it comes in four thicknesses (1" - 4") and is faced or unfaced, but all you need is 1" UNFACED for the absorption of mid and high frequencies (voice range). I'm currently finishing the brewpub and have spent a great deal of time and effort designing it to eliminate the noise issue as well as making it a MUCH better space for live music. Most bars/clubs/restaurants I've been in SUCK as music venues.

          Some links to check out:

          https://www.gearslutz.com/board/stud...ing-acoustics/
          http://ethanwiner.com/acoustics.html
          http://www.gikacoustics.com/

          BTW, I was at Russian River's brewpub not too long ago and noticed they had a LOT of these fiberglass panels covered in black burlap hanging vertically from their high ceiling. They seemed to be working well.


          Cheers,
          --
          Don

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          • #6
            Considerations

            I'm a former musician, having in the distant past went through building 2 recording studio environments.
            Sound is always cancelled better with density. Back in the day, the most effective arrangements were double thick sheetrock and the pro studios of those days would make it where you don't have walls in direct angular opposition to each other.
            There may be some fancy materials out there that work, but the simple rule is that its density that stops sound, not fluffy airy materials like so called old style acoustic ceiling tiles and similar media which do not work.
            Also consider being different.
            Don't play time worn 30+ year old " classic rock " in your tavern at distracing volume and have TV assaulting people from every imaginable angle. No television at all is a good plan.
            Dare to do it differently and create a genuine ambience.
            Warren Turner
            Industrial Engineering Technician
            HVACR-Electrical Systems Specialist
            Moab Brewery
            The Thought Police are Attempting to Suppress Free Speech and Sugar coat everything. This is both Cowardice and Treason given to their own kind.

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            • #7
              We had this problem in our taproom, which has a concrete floor with exposed metal girders and a concrete ceiling. We got some burlap sacks and sheets of 4" rockwool from an insulation supplier, and hung them in the ceiling. It took a good weekend of work but it greatly reduced the noise. I agree, cut out the TV's.
              Linus Hall
              Yazoo Brewing
              Nashville, TN
              [url]www.yazoobrew.com[/url]

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Starcat View Post
                I'm a former musician, having in the distant past went through building 2 recording studio environments.
                Sound is always cancelled better with density. Back in the day, the most effective arrangements were double thick sheetrock and the pro studios of those days would make it where you don't have walls in direct angular opposition to each other.
                There may be some fancy materials out there that work, but the simple rule is that its density that stops sound, not fluffy airy materials like so called old style acoustic ceiling tiles and similar media which do not work.
                Also consider being different.
                Don't play time worn 30+ year old " classic rock " in your tavern at distracing volume and have TV assaulting people from every imaginable angle. No television at all is a good plan.
                Dare to do it differently and create a genuine ambience.
                I think he's more concerned with sound absorption for tuning a room instead of soundproofing. They are two very different things and the products mentioned earlier in this thread address his concerns quite well. While you're quite right about building in the manner you suggest to stop sound transmission and minimize standing waves, which helps to "clean up" the sound in a room, "fluffy airy materials" are what's needed when trying to mitigate the nasty reflections and the RT60 time of a room. Rigid fiberglass panels or Rockwool products work great in this application. I agree, though, those "old style acoustic ceiling tiles" are not remotely usable as sound-deadening devices.

                Here's a picture of my live room with acoustic panels in place that are designed for trapping bass and balancing out the mid/high frequencies:

                Click image for larger version

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                Cheers,
                --
                Don
                Last edited by idylldon; 09-09-2016, 09:19 AM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  DIY Panels

                  Second all the comments on noisy tap rooms. It's a huge pet peeve and is not expensive to at least ameliorate to a certain extent.

                  These are what I have used in the past for recording studio applications and will be using in our tap room. Build some frames and cover with fabric. We use these as additional design elements in the tap room both reducing noise and looking cool hanging from the ceiling. We have also cut the insulation in half and done wall pieces as well. Hint, when you build the frame, have a way to stand it off of the wall, creating a space behind the panel. I used small rubber stoppers, which reduce vibration as well as creating an air space behind the panel.

                  http://www.acoustimac.com/owens-corn...FZQjgQodrNUNmQ

                  The posts above are also very correct about both the density and the materials used in tap rooms. Exposed concrete is nothing but a reflector and when all your walls are perpendicular you get what are called standing waves, which creates that cacophony with crowds. Angles on the walls, even small ones can help, as well as doubling up on the drywall. These can be a little pricey when trying to build out on a shoe string, but there are small design choices you can make that will significantly reduce the noise in the room. Start with no TV.

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                  • #10
                    This is great info! Thanks everyone! I feel better knowing I am not the only one who is annoyed by this. I'm not a old guy either. I believe talking at a bar is becoming more important as we all live and die by the smart phones of today and call people less, so we have a greater need to speak verbally to people.

                    We plan to have no TV's (another distraction) and no blaring music. We will likely have the concrete floor with exposed metal girders and a concrete ceiling mentioned in this thread so I will be able to hang these ties. I also plan to have a few wood divider walls which I can put the harder foam mentioned in this thread to absorb sound further. I also found some sound deadening products in Canada but they are pricey! $200 for 2' x 4' rectangle, but they have rubber and such built in. The sack with fire retardant paint and $36 foam is much more affordable. Probly ends up being $50 installed per custom tile.

                    I also found this. Its a DB meter that you set and it will let the staff know the music is too loud or that the people noise increased so turn down the music to buffer the overall noise.

                    https://www.amazon.com/Yacker-Tracke.../dp/B001AZ2O2Q

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      What you are looking to limit is not sound, it's reverb. Hard, parallel surfaces are the enemy if you are looking to create an environment that doesn't sound like an indoor pool. Add some soft textures to your design. Hang thick velour theater drapes in front of two adjoining walls, not tight. Theater drapes suck up a ridiculous amount of sound, and if you do it right you can make a really, well...dramatic look to the design. If you REALLY want to kill sound...attach 1-2" of foam rubber to your walls and hang the drapes in front of the foam rubber. Foam rubber is great reverb deadening material, and if you do that to a room it will be deader than a thanksgiving turkey.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Sound

                        We took empty grain bags and stuffed them with pillow stuffing. Put two of them together end to end and hung them from the ceiling alternating the angle. Don't just hang them flat. Works great and looks kinda cool.

                        We have concrete ceilings and one wall.
                        Slainte,
                        Jeff Lockhart
                        Brew Master
                        Red Leg Brewing Co.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Acoustic Panels

                          Originally posted by Jedi View Post
                          More and more I go to these popular bars and restaurants and with a table of 4 to 6 there is no chance to have a conversation with anyone that isn't right beside you. It's driving me crazy.

                          It's mostly crowd noise and then it's amplified when these places think they need to turn up the music to beat the crowd noise.

                          Building the new taproom any advice from people to help this sort of thing. I've checked out a few thing on the Internet, fabric pictures that consume sound waves. Elaborate types of drywall (not in the cards for me). Sound deadening floating ceiling tiles. There's even sound deadoning paint!

                          I'm sure many of these end up not reducing to their specs. Any ideas or feedback would be great.
                          This is a case study on a restaurant:
                          https://videos.files.wordpress.com/V...all-3.1_hd.mp4
                          Last edited by M Nightingale; 04-02-2019, 01:19 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by andrew_FSBC View Post
                            The panels the post above mentions work great for us. I bought the raw fiberglass panels, built frames and wrapped them in burlap myself and saved a ton off the price. Very labor intensive though. You will need 10-25% of your total room surface area covered in these panels depending on the construction and contents of the room and how far you want to treat it.
                            Same for us. The level of reduction is quite unexpected.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We recently built a shed-roof outdoor bandstand at the pub. With just the bare plywood roof deck and exposed rafters, the sound was absolutely horrible. We used cheap, unfaced fiberglass batt insulation between the rafters, and then covered that with burlap. The sound issue is completely solved for very little cost. You can now hear your own heartbeat when standing on the stage.

                              We've used the commercially made acoustic panels in our upstairs space, which has low cathedral ceilings and horrible acoustics. We spaced the panels about 4' apart and it has helped immensely.

                              I've measured sound levels on a busy day in our downstairs pub area (no sound dampening). Sustained sound levels of 80+ db, with peaks up to 95 db. That's well within the range that all employees should be wearing ear protection, and from conversation only as we keep the music low.
                              Last edited by TGTimm; 01-16-2020, 12:00 PM.
                              Timm Turrentine

                              Brewerywright,
                              Terminal Gravity Brewing,
                              Enterprise. Oregon.

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