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Steel framed "brewing deck"...thoughts?

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  • Steel framed "brewing deck"...thoughts?

    I'm looking at sharing a space with someone, essentially one end of an existing industrial building. I can't make permanent changes to the existing floor to put drains in, so what I was thinking about was building a "brewing deck" inside the building, raised somewhat above the current finished floor. This also gives a bit of a loading dock at the end where the rollup door is, though I don't want the deck too high up.

    The ceiling height is very good, so no worries there. The construction uses light gauge steel (LGS) framing, a thicker gauge than steel studs, probably about 16 gauge. Some sort of waterproof floor would go on top, sloped to a central trench drain running the length of the deck. The trench slopes to a sump (either at the end, or the middle), where a pump would lift the effluent to the built-in sewer connection in the building.

    FVs and other heavy equipment would sit on top of the deck, with extra framing below to carry the load directly to the slab floor, without suspending the weight on the deck itself. All the wet operations would take place on the deck, except possibly keg filling, so that the kegs don't have to be lifted up and down. Brew length is currently planned to be 3.5 bbl, with 7 bbl FVs.

    Structurally, this is pretty easy to do; for example, if the brewing deck was 16 feet wide, and 24 feet long, you could run the joists lengthwise for a clear span of 24 feet, though I'd probably put a center footing in place. Running joists lengthwise like this makes it very easy to slope to a central trench. You can actually order all the steel structure cut to length, so it's not so hard to install.

    Any thoughts on this approach for brewing?

    What would be the best and/or most economical floor? For e.g., Gyp-Crete over steel pans, or perhaps pressure treated flooring panels? Would you put a urethane finish directly on that, or would you want something else first.

    Thanks in advance!
    Mike Sharp

  • #2
    This sounds like a brilliant solution to a common problem--and not cutting corners, either.

    For the flooring, if you're going to have a steel deck, why not use diamond-plate steel and coat it with a lightly sanded epoxy? Adding another layer of decking would just add cleaning problems and unintended fermentation/culture chambers.

    For the rest of the steel members, we've had incredible success with a spray product called "Alloy Bond Supercoat 316L Liquid Stainless Steel". This stuff requires no primer (in fact, doesn't work at all with primer), dries almost instantly, and basically leaves clean mild steel with an SS plating. Lasts a long, long, time. Not cheap.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 01-20-2016, 02:46 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

    Comment


    • #3
      Allow for the plates to expand and contract, i.e. the steel plates must not be fastened down too well, so they so not buckle when they expand, as they never straighten up again. We tried that in a big filter room and the plates buckled within a couple of weeks due to all the expansion / contraction due to hot water spillages. But otherwise it works well.
      dick

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      • #4
        Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
        For the flooring, if you're going to have a steel deck, why not use diamond-plate steel and coat it with a lightly sanded epoxy? Adding another layer of decking would just add cleaning problems and unintended fermentation/culture chambers.
        Diamond plate? Wow, that never occurred to me...I was thinking lightweight concrete like gyp-crete poured/blown into sheetmetal pans that span the joists. The pans have ridges, rather like a sheetmetal roof panel. It's how they pour a floor in some high-rise apartments. The floors are very thin when supported this way.

        But diamond plate would make it possible to take down the entire structure and move it, if I end up moving the operation in a few years. I like it!

        How would you seal the joints between the panels? I could weld them, but that make one giant pan, which might have problems at that size without expansion joints. If the structure was 16x32 ft, I could run 4x8 sheets width-wise on both sides of the trench, which would mean all the joints are 90 deg. to the trench, and sloped down. I'd need blocking between the joists where each plate butts up with it's neighbor. With a rubber sheet gasket seal, the space between the plates would drain to the trench. But I'm not sure it would be water-proof. I don't want liquids leaking through the floor.

        Originally posted by TGTimm View Post
        For the rest of the steel members, we've had incredible success with a spray product called "Alloy Bond Supercoat 316L Liquid Stainless Steel". This stuff requires no primer (in fact, doesn't work at all with primer), dries almost instantly, and basically leaves clean mild steel with an SS plating. Lasts a long, long, time. Not cheap.
        Sounds like an epoxy/stainless version of cold galvanizing spray. Is this stuff rated for traffic, or are you referring to spraying the structural steel framing, not the deck surface? It doesn't say on their website whether it's used for floors. The LGS joists are rolled galvanized, and except for where you cut them, are exterior rated. I think normally you just spray cold galvanizing on the cut ends...


        Originally posted by dick murton View Post
        Allow for the plates to expand and contract, i.e. the steel plates must not be fastened down too well, so they so not buckle when they expand, as they never straighten up again. We tried that in a big filter room and the plates buckled within a couple of weeks due to all the expansion / contraction due to hot water spillages. But otherwise it works well.
        Good point; even with a gyp-crete floor, I'd need expansion joints for a surface that big. When I was in the navy, the decks in the engine room were made from diamond plates like this, with deck screws that were (IIRC) 5/16 or 3/8 USS coarse thread flat head screws, but the heads were huge, as were holes in the deck plates. Probably about an inch in diameter. This allowed the deck plate to shift slightly as the structure flexed. That would also work for thermal expansion, I think.

        Thanks for the responses!
        Mike Sharp

        Comment


        • #5
          There are many ways to deal with expansion joints in the deck. A google search will likely get you several solutions, but I'd go with something really simple. Tape some wax paper or other release membrane across the bottom of the joints, then fill the gap with a neat bead of Vulkem caulking. This is an urethane caulking, very slow to dry, extremely flexible and durable. Replacing windows installed with Vulkem requires cutting the caulk--you can't break it or pull it loose. I doubt it would hold a finish, but that's not a big problem as it is a finish.

          We use the Alloy Bond for many things, but we've never tried it for a deck finish. I have some equipment that's been continuously exposed to rain, snow, ice, and some pretty heavy usage and abusage for over four years, and it's just starting to show a couple of rust spots--no peeling or blistering, just little spots of rust showing through where the welds weren't finished smooth enough.In most cases, this stuff covers in one coat and dries in minutes.

          I've used Alloy Bond over galvy, not much, after an acid wash. It works better on clean steel.

          I'd use a two-part epoxy formulated for steel decking for the decks, perhaps with a little sand for traction. The sand makes it a bit harder to clean, but we all know how slippery the brewhouse floor can get.

          You can also get SS diamond-plate, which wouldn't require a finish--could be slippery when wet/w malt dust, and it's $$$$.

          All of our elevated decks are fiberglass grid decking--great traction, easy to clean. I'd recommend this for anything but your water-tight bottom deck.
          Last edited by TGTimm; 01-22-2016, 10:33 AM.
          Timm Turrentine

          Brewerywright,
          Terminal Gravity Brewing,
          Enterprise. Oregon.

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks for the tips, Timm.

            I'm getting a few quotes for FRP floor panels. It occurred to me that these would be even better, due to their light weight. They have a gritted finish that looks a lot better than diamond tread for wet conditions. They're also really good in corrosive conditions. BUT they're pricey as hell. Not as much as SS, but eye-opening. I'll need over 500 square feet, or about 16 4x8 panels, so maybe a discount is available. Still, the final cost should be less than it would cost to modify an existing floor for trench drains (e.g. grind and re-pour), and yet still removable (technically, at least).

            Thanks,
            Mike

            Comment


            • #7
              @rdcpro, can you put an update on here with your progress / final solution? We're getting ready to jack and slope floors, and hadn't considered this as an alternative.

              Thanks!

              Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jeffzearfoss View Post
                @rdcpro, can you put an update on here with your progress / final solution? We're getting ready to jack and slope floors, and hadn't considered this as an alternative.

                Thanks!

                Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
                Hi Jeff,

                I'd talk with Robert Shaw of Colorado Deck and Framing ( http://www.mysteeldeck.com/ ). Luckily for you, he's in Colorado Springs, and has a lot of experience with steel deck framing, albeit for the home market. I've not gotten my permit yet, so can't offer much firm advice yet, but the design I'm going with is very simple, two deck surfaces sloped to the centerline with joists parallel to the length of the deck. Trench drain will go in the center, sandwiched between two joists. A waterproof membrane goes between the deck panels and the joists. As I mentioned, I'm planning on textured FRP panels for the deck plates. A quick search on Alibaba will turn up some inexpensive sources for these.

                I believe the hardest part will be getting the engineering done for the static load of the brewhouse and FVs. But my hope is the LGS manufacturer could supply this...



                I got the original idea while googling around for examples of LGS deck framing, and saw this article: http://www.deckmagazine.com/framing/...ith-steel.aspx

                Please do post back if you end up going this route, or if you run into a showstopper, I'd like to know about that as well.

                Regards,
                Mike Sharp

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