Rahr 2 row--any good?

[Gabe]

Looking at the difference btwn Gambrinus and Rahr and wanted to get the boards opinion. We love Gambrinus but we are now installing our silo and bulk shipments are $$$. So, looking into changing our base malt but don't want a huge diff in efficiency, color, protien etc.

Anyone out there absolutley love or hate Rahr 2 row? Let me know.
Brewers Supply swears by this malt, for what that's worth!

[grassrootsvt]

I love it.
Great extract, great price.
I pull about 820 grams of sugar per kilo at about 85% efficiency.
Great flavor.
I'm on board.
Shaun e.

[BeerBoy]

Brewing with it right now - good extract and flavors. Kernels are nice-n-plump.

[chaser]

never had a problem with rahr 2-row. always consistent and quality.

[drewseslu]

I love Rahr Pale Ale Malt, Premium Pilsen and White Wheat Malt. Great extract, easy lauters, great flavor.

(Nothing against Gambrinus, of course, I use their Munich 10L and Honey Malt)

[Jim Lieb]

I use there pale ale malt as my base malt for all of my ales and have never had a problem. The people at Brewers Supply Group are good top work with.

Jim Lieb
Rocky River Brewing Co.

[Woolsocks]

Be sure you have a great boil with Rahr. I don't get great boils and was getting DMS issues with Rahr. I switched to Gambrinus and got much better results.

[Jephro]

DMS & different Malts

Be sure you have a great boil with Rahr. I don't get great boils and was getting DMS issues with Rahr. I switched to Gambrinus and got much better results.

Wow, that's interesting I have never heard of a specific malt increasing the possibility for DMS. Do you know what it was/is about a particular malt that enables higher levels of DMS than another?

[Woolsocks]

Wow, that's interesting I have never heard of a specific malt increasing the possibility for DMS. Do you know what it was/is about a particular malt that enables higher levels of DMS than another?

I'd guess that SMM levels would be the main thing, but nobody seems to include that info in their malt analysis. I even asked Rahr for that info and they didn't know.

[Jephro]

Funny thing, i forgot Matthias (from Gambrinus) was stopping by today. He walked into the brewery just after i posted, i thought i was seeing things (damn Chantix, i've almost quit smoking now but i can't tell my dreams from reality sometimes). I asked him the same question i posted and he pulled out a book written in German and showed me some diagrams and said that the precursors develop while the grain is growing and are still present during the malting process. The bulk of the DMS precursors are normally evaporated in the kiln, but if the grain does not reach higher temps, higher levels of the DMS precursors will remain. So it sounds like a particular Maltster or particular lot of malt could in fact have a higher level of DMS precursors. He said in most cases if you have a vigorous boil especially in combination with a stack fan it should not be a problem. IMHO in Woolsocks case changing malt was the proper thing to do, especially considering nobody (at Rahr or BSG?) could give you an answer, or track it down to a particular batch- basically make the effort to keep you as a customer. Seems odd to me that a Maltster could not answer that question.

Gabe- Matthias read your post you said to give him a call about Gambrinus Silo Malt Pricing, he had one more stop in Wa and is driving home today so should be back in the office monday. I use their Pils Malt as a base malt in the silo and have been happy with it. For the first 6 months i worked here i did not even realize it was not a standard 2-row.

You may also want to check with Teri Fahrendorf at Great Western Malting as they have quality malt and great Customer Service as well. I have brewed with one silo's worth of GWM 2-row and really liked it. We use GWM for our bagged Munich, C-40, C-75 and i love that they are carrying more Baird and Franco Belges now too.

I just got a silo fill from Gambrinus and price is down, plumpness, extract, overall quality is better than last years

Hoppy Brewing Everybody (say it in a Dr. Nick voice)

[Gabe]

Thanks,
I was told some big time breweries use Rahr, and that the delivery price is much easier to swallow that a full silo of Gambrinus. Up untill now all our recipes use Gam for the base. Time to buy a couple bags of Rahr and break out the home brew stuff and brew some batches! Thanks again for the info and opinions.

[beertje46]

Time to buy a couple bags of Rahr and break out the home brew stuff and brew some batches! Thanks again for the info and opinions.

How does your homebrew equipment compare to your real brewery?

[Gabe]

Pretty close efficeincy wise. Were small so the scale up is easy.

[DFusion]

Rahr for me too.

For what it's worth, we use Rahr Pale Ale as base for all our beers. We get a pretty vigorous boil in our kettle, but have noticed a little DMS in our product. (knockout times are pretty fast, no microbial contam, ect..) strange - never looked at it as a malt manufacturer issue.

[beerking1]

SMM does indeed volatilize more at higher temperatures, including during kilning of the malt. There should not be much SMM remaining in malt as dark or darker than a standard Pale Ale malt. This is why we mostly see the problem with Pils malt.

I don't know what Lovibond would make the difference, although I bet Charlie Bamforth could tell us (I would guess it is somewhere between 2.2 and 3.0L). Paler Pale Ale malts should probably be treated like Pils, and given an extended, vigourous boil.
Once you have a malt with significant SMM remaining, you should probably do a 90 minute boil to ensure you volatilize all the DMS precursors. IIRC, SMM at 212*F has a half life of ~46 minutes. That means you will have half as much SMM after a 46 minute boil, and 1/4 as much after a 92 min boil.

SMM vaporizes and is driven off with the steam during the boil, but will easily condense into DMS and settle back into the kettle if you have a covered boil, hence the comments about using a stack fan. That also is why you would not like the flavor of the condensate if you tasted it.

If you are still getting significant DMS after using a vigorous 90 minute boil, I would recommend extending the boil, probably another 20-30 minutes would do it. This assumes you are allowing the vapors to escape. If not, your next step is to ensure an easy escape path for the vapors.