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  • Steam Jacket filling with water?

    Hi folks,
    Got a problem with my steam jackets. Seems that the bottom jackets on both my Kettle and HLT don't function as well as they should. The HLT does not heat up as per usual, in fact the max temp that it can reach without "prompting" is 150F. When i hit the air locks on the side of the HLT, hot water comes jetting out followed by steam. If i depress the lock long enough, I can clear out the trapped water until nothing but steams comes out. Other times, I have steam in the jacket but it still does not hit temp. I have checked all the condensate traps, cleaned them out, blown out the jackets to ensure no debris is in there blocking the condensate traps and yet I still have situations where I can feel the heat going through the pipes into the jackets but not passing through the condensate trap on the other end. Funny thing is that when I knock the condensate trap about, it gets hot and i can feel steam/condensate passing through. Could it also be the condensate return pump not functioning properly? At times it seems not to be pulling the condensate out to return to the boiler but rather fills the reservoir and allows it to run through the overflow into the drain.

    Mash tun and upper steam jacket on kettle seem to work fine. I have a tech coming in today to inspect the boiler and replace the float switch which they seem to think may be the cause of the problem.

    Any thoughts?

    I have a low pressure boiler and a Bohemian Mono Bloc II kit.

    I should add that sometimes when just the HLT steam jacket is initialised, I have what seems to be condensate running backwards through the condensate traps into the bottom jacket of the kettle. I've looked for check valves it does not seem to have any to prevent this. Should there be? The only way I can prevent this is to shut off the main steam condensate trap valve and only allow the steam to travel to the jacket required and have that condensate trap do all the work.

    Thanks

  • #2
    Without going into lots of analysis, it sounds like you might have air in your jackets not being purged out on steam flow. Unless the air is bled out through an air eliminator, steam will not get to the jacket. The air will pressurize to the same pressure as the steam and then sit there insulating your jacket from the steam. It won't go through most condensate traps. And you shouldn't have to knock your condensate traps about before they work. They don't pull the water out of the jacket, they allow the water to be pushed by the steam pressure. If you have condensate overflowing to a drain, then something is really wrong. Like perhaps the condensate pump or associated controls. Check valves are not usually put on condensate lines, unless maybe for the outlet of the condensate pump. The condensate trap itself acts as a check valve. Each jacket should have a trap. Tying condensate lines together after the traps to a common header into a condensate tank isn't usually a problem. If your jackets are really filling with condensate, then either you have no pressure, no steam, or a malfunctioning trap. Any good boiler man should have this sussed in short order. Good luck!
    Last edited by gitchegumee; 07-15-2010, 11:28 PM.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the reply. I think you may be right about the pressure being off and not pushing the condensate through however, I am also thinking that debris may be clogging the traps. At times, when I blow the air eliminators, I see crud coming out with the condensate.
      Funny thing is, it feels as though there is sufficient pressure in the jacket as when I tap the air eliminators on the side of the jacket, the steam and condensate come blowing out - could it be too low of pressure in the jacket? If so, what do you think the cause could be bearing in mind that the top jackets seem to work just fine?
      In any case, I have the boiler guy in right now and will pass on your info and keep my fingers crossed.

      Comment


      • #4
        air eliminators

        We are currently in the process of setting up our boiler. Could someone direct me to a company website with the part or take a photo of an "air eliminator?" I assume that these are placed on the condensate side of the jacket?

        Thank you!

        Comment


        • #5


          My condensate traps are from these folks.

          Comment


          • #6
            Our boiler company installed these eliminators on our traps.



            They have made our steam very responsive, and no more monkeys with hammers when I turn the kettle jackets on.

            "If you have condensate overflowing to a drain, then something is really wrong."
            That is kind of a blanket statement. We have condensate overflow from our return tank every time I turn a jacket on, not much but I bet a growlers worth at least. It has been working fine for years that way.
            Joel Halbleib
            Partner / Zymurgist
            Hive and Barrel Meadery
            6302 Old La Grange Rd
            Crestwood, KY
            www.hiveandbarrel.com

            Comment


            • #7
              Air Eliminators

              Awesome. So, this air vent is connected to the trap at the outlet of the steam jacket.. Can either of you post a snapshot of your configuration in and out of the jacket? Our boiler tech is setting up our system now and I would like to make sure that everything is in order... He is familiar with steam but not with brew systems. I would be very appreciative.

              thx!

              Comment


              • #8
                So it looks like we had a bunch of crud blocking some of our gauges and valves and floats which in turn was allowing the boiler to create enough steam and pressure to service our needs. It was generating enough to create steam but not pressure to kick it through - so I am being told. Proof will be when I fire this puppy up.

                BTW - the "eliminators" I have turn out to be vacuum relief valves which seems to be the norm for low pressure boilers. Should I not have air eliminators somewhere?

                Comment


                • #9
                  Vacuum breakers are a must, eliminators are optional. I would run it and see if it works ok without eliminators first.
                  Joel Halbleib
                  Partner / Zymurgist
                  Hive and Barrel Meadery
                  6302 Old La Grange Rd
                  Crestwood, KY
                  www.hiveandbarrel.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thanks, good to know. Much like fa50driver, if I did want to put in eliminators, where would I put them? When I fired the boiler in the past, it sounded like a real P/O'd gorilla banging on the walls. Wouldn't the eliminators rectify this problem?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Yes they have eliminated the banging on our kettle.

                      We use Hoffman 4 port traps. One of the high ports is a inlet from the steam line. The other high port was filled with a plug. Remove the plug and get a reducer from 1/2 to down to which ever size eliminator you get.
                      The lower port under the steam inlet is a blow off valve and the lower port under the eliminator is condensate return.
                      Joel Halbleib
                      Partner / Zymurgist
                      Hive and Barrel Meadery
                      6302 Old La Grange Rd
                      Crestwood, KY
                      www.hiveandbarrel.com

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        BrewinLou,

                        Would you be so kind as to take a snapshot of your configuration?

                        Thx!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Air eliminators are not optional--they are a must for any float-type steam trap installation. Thermostatic-type steam traps may not require them. Ask a QUALIFIED boiler mechanic. Without air eliminators you will never see the full thermal potential from your jackets. Air will blind the surface area of the jacket and steam won't condense there. These are normally positioned above the level of the jacket. They're not expensive. Get it right the first time.
                          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I have combi thermostatic/float valves. Do you figure I should still look into eliminators?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              See attached for pic.

                              Phillip, My system was installed in 93'. I do not know by whom. But Air eliminators were not added to the traps until 6 months ago. Many thousands of barrels of beer have been brewed over the years on this system without the use of air eliminators. I call that optional. The only improvment I have noticed is, no more hammering on the bottom jacket of the kettle when first turned on, and turning the steam on and off is almost happening too fast for the boiler to keep up. When I shut off both side and bottom kettle jackets it happens so fast it will make the boiler pressure rise from 12 psi to 17 psi which pops the safety blow off valve. Still takes close to the same amount of time to heat up a kettle of wort. This is just my experience, I call that optional.
                              Attached Files
                              Last edited by BrewinLou; 07-19-2010, 08:32 AM.
                              Joel Halbleib
                              Partner / Zymurgist
                              Hive and Barrel Meadery
                              6302 Old La Grange Rd
                              Crestwood, KY
                              www.hiveandbarrel.com

                              Comment

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