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  • #16
    Mkyle,

    I am in the middle of building a 3 bbl brewery and things are going pretty well because I put a lot of time into planning.

    My only advise to you is to plan EVERYTHING out first. Work your way back from the legal fees, permits, and cost to make your facility compliant with local codes. From there, its easy to price equipment and figure out a rough cost to start.

    If you want to start small, do it with disposable money. That way, if you fail, no problem. Just remember that the final cost you come to, will most likely be underbudgeted at the end with all of the fun supprises, so make sure you have a margin.

    Don't let negative comments get you down. Only you know if its feasible to start a brewery. Worst case is that you lose a lot of money. Thats much better than looking back far from now and wishing you just took a stab at it. If people just followed the disbelief of others, this country would have nothing to be proud of.

    Take everyone's advice, be it positive or negative and use it to your advantage. Create a plan and just do it.

    Starting a brewery is the most glorious pain in the ass, but it's worth every moment.

    Good luck.
    Chris Enegren
    www.enegrenbrewing.com

    Comment


    • #17
      Mkyle,

      I am in the middle of building a 3 bbl brewery and things are going pretty well because I put a lot of time into planning.

      My only advise to you is to plan EVERYTHING out first. Work your way back from the legal fees, permits, and cost to make your facility compliant with local codes. From there, its easy to price equipment and figure out a rough cost to start.

      If you want to start small, do it with disposable money. That way, if you fail, no problem. Just remember that the final cost you come to, will most likely be underbudgeted at the end with all of the fun supprises, so make sure you have a margin.

      Don't let negative comments get you down. Only you know if its feasible to start a brewery. Worst case is that you lose a lot of money. Thats much better than looking back far from now and wishing you just took a stab at it. If people just followed the disbelief of others, this country would have nothing to be proud of.

      Take everyone's advice, be it positive or negative and use it to your advantage. Create a plan and just do it.

      Starting a brewery is the most glorious pain in the ass, but it's worth every moment.

      Good luck.
      Chris Enegren
      www.enegrenbrewing.com

      Comment


      • #18
        Not to discourage anyone, to the contrary I wish you the best of luck. But why would anyone think they can make it in an industry which they have zero experience? Not even washing kegs or working on a bottle line? Never CIP a tank? You should be able to do this blindfolded. You shouldn't be asking this community of brewers if your idea is possible. You should KNOW THAT IT IS! Is there any other industry this would even be debated? Home "chef" jumping into an upscale restaurant? Know what the success rates are for that? "Paying your dues" isn't about money. I recommend strongly against throwing money at something you have no idea about until you spend at least one year (preferably much more) working in a professional setting. Hell, I couldn't even pay Siebel to take me in for their program unless I had three years' experience in the industry (back when the school could be more demanding of its prospective students.) And for good reason...the folks who paid tuition didn't want a newbie holding back the rest of the class. It was assumed that everyone had a basic working knowledge of not only brewing, but of brewery operations. I'm sure you won't regret putting this off until you actually gain some experience in the field you expect to run a business. Again, best of luck and hope to see you out and about in the brewers' community one day.
        Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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        • #19
          Nice addition to the Sound website, very true. Seems like some venting from all the goofy calls he gets but reality based. Very well done, not what folks want to hear but I could not disagree with any of it. Point to take from that, it can be done but do it right! To do it right takes a sh*t load of money, year after year....capital intense but worth it.

          Comment


          • #20
            Again, if there's one thing about brewing, it's that there's more than one way to skin a cat. There's no reason a person can't start something from scratch with little help and be very successful. Granted, it's much easier to be trained, go to school, learn the trade, etc. (stand on the shoulders of giants) but the world is filled with entrepreneurs that taught themselves. I mean, homebrewing, right? It takes all types. The advice that you will have a harder time starting from scratch and ignorance is sound, but somehow in some posts it can come across as dissuasive or patronizing. I mean, what, we're all altruistic people who just don't want to see our fellow man fail? It's like the scene in 'beer wars' where anat is addressing the paradox that brewery folks are all so friendly and helpful until it comes time to really cooperate and we often retreat for fear of losing what little scrap of the market we have to a 'fellow brewer' or competitor. It's just the way it is.

            And, again, this nano thing is the antithesis of the early '90s industry trend of money driving the business. This is a repeal for local beer, to get back to the old days. In a way that sucks b/c now the 'little guys' have become 'bigger guys' with the addition of a new (nano) link in the chain. My brewery is to a 5,000 bbl a year brewery what sierra nevada is to boston beer company which is the same as bbc is to inbev, right? Now that there's an even littler guy in the chain and bbc has gotten even bigger the playing field has become more complex.

            Sorry for my ramblings. I need to write a book already.
            _______________________
            Chris Burcher, Wolf Hills
            Abingdon, VA

            Comment


            • #21
              I applaud people that start out small. Capitalization is the key in all things. As Burcher said, testing your market and proof of concept are all valid things to do.

              Think about it... Sam C. started his brewery brewing on a Sabco system.... now look at it.

              If you are not confident enough to take then plunge and risk your money then no amount of us saying yes or no is going to get you where you want to be.

              R/
              Mike Pensinger
              General Manager/Brewmaster
              Parkway Brewing Company
              Salem, VA

              Comment


              • #22
                I'm going to jump on the bandwagon that you should do it if you think you can do it, whether or not you succeed or not is another issue. I just moved back down to Oregon as my wife just got a good job down here. I'm unemployed again but I do have a year of serious brewing experience under my belt now. I get pretty down when it seems like just about everyone on here says you can't succeed going small. To me starting small is more of a proof of concept venture. I know how to brew on the big systems, I know how to CIP a tank in my sleep (dream about it all the time), and I know how freeking hard being a brewer is most of the time. Sure I have more experience than you and I would say that that does put me at an advantage, but if I don't set up my business right and you do I'll fail and you'll move on to a bigger system and start making money. I think the key is that you need to learn some of the tricks of the trade. I've seen far too many people start small with no experience that got talked into far too expensive equipment that was inadequate for expansion only to fail due to capital drying up. I say if your doing anything smaller than 3bbl or less get to know a good welder and find some dairy equipment, it doesn't have to be expensive guys. I know a brewery that had no more than 25k invested in their first system was successful with that and now is on to a 20bbl system.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by beermkr

                  Think about it... Sam C. started his brewery brewing on a Sabco system.... now look at it.


                  R/

                  I find it interesting that so many people use Sam C. as a base for comparison to justify starting small, particularly in this discussion, which really is completely out of context for a plethora of reasons. We are talking viability of a draft only packaging start-up on a 1/2 to 3BBl system in 2010, amidst a recession. From the horses mouth, Sam C. quote, "I figured I could reduce my risk of failure if I had revenue streams from both a brewery and a restaurant." Also Keep in mind that he started in a lease position at a turnkey restaurant (Sam's words), "in a thriving commercial community" with $220K and a small horseshoe up his sleeve. So IMO much, much different scenario.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    You will have to get a variance to be allowed to have the brewery at your garage, even in a detached garage. These can be hard to get depending on the location. You'd need city and county approval, most likely. The TTB is also reluctant to approve garage breweries, but they will. They usually look at the local approvals more in garage situations.

                    Yes, you will need all the same permits/licenses as every other brewery. Which, at a local level, means you will most likely also have to notify the fire, building, and health departments as well.

                    Like others have said, you will blow through $10K in a minute, even if you have all of your equipment. You will need at least twice as much as you think you do.

                    Also, talk to bars and restaurants, taps are hard to get. With a lot of breweries around, they are fought for pretty intensely.

                    Best of luck!

                    -Anda
                    I found a great domain name for sale on Dan.com. Check it out!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I can tell you from personal experience that it takes just as much time and labor to brew a small batch as a large one, but a small batch sells for a small amount of money! Your labor cost (and I don't care whether you're actually paying yourself money or not, you're certainly spending your TIME) for a very small batch of beer is all out of proportion to what you can sell it for.

                      I've never worked so hard in my life as I did the one year I worked at a very small batch brewery. And that brewery didn't survive.

                      Just sayin'...

                      Tim

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                      • #26
                        I am in the process of starting a brewery in PA for as cheap as I can, just watch what the local codes are going to require. I will have no employees other than myself yet I have to put in a handicap bathroom and parking space. My driveway is gravel yet I am being forced to put in a paved space. All in all it's not too expensive but something I wasn't expecting. Oh and don't forget the architect, PA requires blue prints with a state stamp... Since the use of the building is changing I have to bring everything up to code, I would expect you would have the same issues, but I still think you should go for it if you can, just know there will be unexpected costs.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by sdgbrew
                          I am in the process of starting a brewery in PA for as cheap as I can, just watch what the local codes are going to require. I will have no employees other than myself yet I have to put in a handicap bathroom and parking space. My driveway is gravel yet I am being forced to put in a paved space. All in all it's not too expensive but something I wasn't expecting. Oh and don't forget the architect, PA requires blue prints with a state stamp... Since the use of the building is changing I have to bring everything up to code, I would expect you would have the same issues, but I still think you should go for it if you can, just know there will be unexpected costs.

                          The unexpected costs can sometimes get pretty high. Most of them are in local governmental entity requirements, additional sinks, hoods, dust containment systems, water rights (especially if you are in the west), and the list goes on and on depending on where you are located. It pays to do a little research locally before committing to any location. Make sure you can get a zoning variance, that there are adequate water rights and pipes connected to the building, etc. Then talk to the fire, building, and health departments and get lists of things they look for on inspection. It may take longer to find a place, but, it could be well worth the savings.

                          -Anda

                          I found a great domain name for sale on Dan.com. Check it out!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            I don't think any amount of dissuading is gonna actually dissuade someone set on doing something like this. But you *do* have enough doubt to at least field the question here ... so you must be prepared to hear the weight and balance of wisdom.

                            To me, it's more a matter of take-your-lumps-now or take-your-lumps-later. Any hands-on larger-than-homebrew experience or additional knowledge of any of the numerous hats you must wear is certainly gonna make it that much more likely you're "successful" ... whatever that means to you personally.

                            Measure up your risks and protect whatever personal funds and ego you desire. Beyond that, I think there are many risks worth taking because, in the end, all you stand to really lose may be some money, time, and enthusiasm. Certainly if it doesn't kill ya, then it's all just shades of what you're willing to risk/suffer.

                            The potential gains are huge. And I think often it can be more about bucking the system of work offered us in this day and age, and doing something for yourself and to get your hands involved in creating something palpable and self-worth-validating.

                            And you'll no longer need fear living with the regret "I always used to dream of..."

                            Learn through wisdom or learn through experience. The second one just hurts more. But it can also make you feel more alive.

                            Good luck.

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