Scaling up hop usage from pilot batch

[ParishBrewingCo]

So I've been aware that hop utilization changes when scaling up recipes to larger batch sizes - but I have discovered first hand how dramatic it really is. For example, going from a 5 gallon size batch to 1.5 bbl, I literally double the hop utilization rate to get the same bitter and flavor profile as the 5 gal batch. I've discovered that if I multiply my batch volume size by 10, I only have to multiply my bittering hop amount by 5 (double utilization).

So my question is - for those of ya'll using even larger systems, 15, 30 bbl, etc. - am I going to see the same kind of dramatic increase in hop utilization when I scale up my recipes again or is this more likely a function of my current equipment/procedures? I guess I'm asking if it is common to see utilization rates double or triple when increasing recipe sizes to this extent?

Thanks.

Andrew

[fa50driver]

Still trying to figure it out

I have recently scaled up from 10 gallon to about 12bbl to 17 bbl. I ran about 4 different recipes through the system, sent the samples away for lab analysis, and found a range of utilization rates. When I adjust the pro-mash hop utilization rates to arrive at the lab results from one recipe, it is off by 50% on another recipe brewed on the same system. My conclusion so far, is that my method of chilling has a large effect with scaling up, and that hops added later in the boil on the production system have a much greater effect than those used in the pilot recipe.

Assumptions:

Pilot - immersion chiller reduces temp from 212 down to 160 in about 10 minutes.

Production - I usually whirlpool 10 minutes, rest 10 minutes and begin a 30 minute knockout. Wort usually stays above 205 until conclusion of knockout.


I assume that since I am adding about 20 to 50 minutes on to the hop contact with wort over 205 degrees F on my production system during whirlpool,rest, and knockout, the utilization of bittering hops on a 60 min. boil should be closer to that of a 80 to 110 minute boil, but the late hop additions are going to have a much greater effect on the BU's. For example, a hop addition at 0 minutes will actually have 20 to 50 minutes contact with wort over 205 F on the production system as compared to my pilot system after the whirlpool/rest/knockout.

So, utilization rates on a stout with little or no late hop additions are going to be significantly less than utilization rates on a pale ale with a large mid to late hop addition.

I have heard/read many reasons as to why utilization rates are different on different systems, but I believe that this is the greatest contributing factor on my scale-up.

[flycracker]

ditto fa50driver

I have recently scaled up from 10 gallon to about 12bbl to 17 bbl. I ran about 4 different recipes through the system, sent the samples away for lab analysis, and found a range of utilization rates. When I adjust the pro-mash hop utilization rates to arrive at the lab results from one recipe, it is off by 50% on another recipe brewed on the same system. My conclusion so far, is that my method of chilling has a large effect with scaling up, and that hops added later in the boil on the production system have a much greater effect than those used in the pilot recipe.

Assumptions:

Pilot - immersion chiller reduces temp from 212 down to 160 in about 10 minutes.

Production - I usually whirlpool 10 minutes, rest 10 minutes and begin a 30 minute knockout. Wort usually stays above 205 until conclusion of knockout.


I assume that since I am adding about 20 to 50 minutes on to the hop contact with wort over 205 degrees F on my production system during whirlpool,rest, and knockout, the utilization of bittering hops on a 60 min. boil should be closer to that of a 80 to 110 minute boil, but the late hop additions are going to have a much greater effect on the BU's. For example, a hop addition at 0 minutes will actually have 20 to 50 minutes contact with wort over 205 F on the production system as compared to my pilot system after the whirlpool/rest/knockout.

So, utilization rates on a stout with little or no late hop additions are going to be significantly less than utilization rates on a pale ale with a large mid to late hop addition.

I have heard/read many reasons as to why utilization rates are different on different systems, but I believe that this is the greatest contributing factor on my scale-up.

--------------------------------------------------------------
I know this is a little late, but info is for everyone...
my pilot batch is around 2bbl and we produce 10bbl...pilot was sized up to do one-off batches to fill oak barrels. anyway, I concur with fa50driver on his hypothesis...timing timing timing. You aren't going to have additions timed off of your pilot like 60,45,30,15 and 0. What I did is STARTED from the isomerization stop time/temp 175 at the HX and counted backwards in time. if you overlay the two timelines you may be close. I say "may" because there are too many variables to consider. If your efficiencies are close and the batch size isn't a huge jump you will probably have a good starting point...cheers