TTB, Tasting room separation

[CaptainEBC]

I'm in the final stages of building my brewery and the TTB is telling me that I need a wall separating my tasting area from the brewing area. We have a 3bbl brewery in a small warehouse.

When I said I could put up a half wall, the TTB rep said it has to be taller so someone can't climb over it.

This sounds rediculous. I've never seen this at any small microbreweries. The only separation I have ever seen was a little chain (which apparently doesn't work for the TTB).

I understand that we need to protect the untaxed beer, but does this mandate a wall? I've seen many breweries with either nothing or just a chain. Is there something that I'm missing that can be implemented without me building a wall?

Any advice would be great.

Thanks.

[Fennellys]

Would showing picture evidence of other operating breweries with no full wall help sway them to your side? I just watched videos on youtube this morning of Hess brewing with just one big open space and Colorado Boy brewing with just a half wall separating the brewing space.

[kugeman]

Things have changed over time. In the 90's you could build a brewery right behind the bar in a brewpub! But not anymore. Now things have to be separate.

Just wait until your code inspector tells you that you have to install sprinklers in the whole building because a brewery is a fire hazard!

[RobW]

Chris,

Been following your build on your blog, as I'm about to start down the same path. Anyway, a friend in SoCal just went thru the same thing as you, he installed something like this - http://www.electric-fences.net/wp-co...Iron-Fence.jpg .. The sections are easily removable

Good luck,

Rob

[Thirsty_Monk]

Would showing picture evidence of other operating breweries with no full wall help sway them to your side?

Bad idea.
You will not make many friends with this kind of approach.

I just watched videos on youtube this morning of Hess brewing with just one big open space.

They have to put a locks on their fermentation fridges.

[South County]

In the past, as recent as 2008 something as simple as stairs/elevation change and/or railing/half-walls have sufficed. However with the advent of so many new breweries with unique situations, especially Nano's in garages and obscure spaces (not suggesting anything about your situation) the TTB must be taking a different approach. Unfortunately we (breweries) are at the mercy of their interpretation and application of the law. Ask what height is acceptable, 42-44" maybe? We took the expense to build an actual retail "room" with glass so this has not been an issue for us. In the end it's irrelevant because you break that spacial relationship when you give guided tours. Makes you wonder if the tail is wagging the Dog!

[mpurcy]

Seperating brewery

I have talked with a few breweries....specifically the great guys at Creekside in SLO....they said it was a homeland security issue...may be homeland security does not want folks putting in Tomain poison in your brite tanks...so RobW is right a 6 foot rought iron fence bolted to ground should be good.

[CaptainEBC]

I talked to the TTB's technical advisor. They usually require an 8' wall, but will allow a half wall as long as the fermenter valves are either locked or the handles have been removed.

.....so half wall it is.

Does anyone know of any butterfly valves that lock?

[CDangerBrew]

CaptainEBC,

I am in the same boat as you, 3bbl system, we just started brewing last week. Is this something you needed to get permission to do specifically for your case, with approved paperwork?
Or is this a written statute that would pass for any brewery without an official tasting room?

[CaptainEBC]

It didn't seem like there was any set specs for this separator. She basically shot down my chain idea because someone could duck under it. But now, if someone jumps over my 4' wall and tries to steal fermenting beer, they'll be detered by the lack of valve handles. That ought to show them.

If I didn't have a tasting room, there wouldn't be a need for the wall. The wall is only to keep people from stealing the government's beer taxes. Once the taxes have been paid on it, and it's moved to the tasting side of the building, they don't care what happens to it.

[stbenjamin]

That is really weird since I remember Schooner Exact Brewing and Two Beers Brewing in Seattle both had the tasting room in the same physical area as the brewhouse. I visited last spring and both were pretty new setups. I didn't recall things being locked down either, actually someone was doing a brew at one when I visited.

[chefmike]

This is what I have learned:

I needed to register a vehicle. I called, asked what I needed. Collected it all and went to the DMV. Lady at the counter said I needed something else. I explained what I had been told. She did not care. She looked at the clock, almost noon. "Going to lunch?" I ask, "Yes", she says. "I will come back later."

Went outside, came back in and went to a different counter. Registered no problem with what I had.


TTB=DMV=IRS= your second grade teacher:
They get what they want, the way they want it. Well, 2nd grade teacher didn't want money.
Thank God we live in a free country.

[smellody]

Locking valves

I talked to the TTB's technical advisor. They usually require an 8' wall, but will allow a half wall as long as the fermenter valves are either locked or the handles have been removed.

.....so half wall it is.

Does anyone know of any butterfly valves that lock?

Did you find locking valves or where handles are easily removed/added?

[Fullcourt]

I was at IDD in Moorpark, Calif yesterday. There was a red plastic device. I asked what it was, and Jeff told me it was for locking valves. It looked like a long kleenix box.

[porter]

Anyone have an update?

Hey forumites,
We are just about to submit our ttb app for our new production facility and while crossing T's and dotting I's, I am concerned about this potential snag regarding the separation between taproom and brewery.

I would like to get the approval on the first go around and there is no possible way we can build a permanent wall. We need something removable and affordable.

Has anyone come up with anything or seen anything that will pass?

Is it all about what agent you get at the ttb?

has anyone built a brewery in the last 2 years with minimal barrier- i.e. stanchions or moveable metal fencing?

Thanks