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Diatomaceous earth ingestion

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  • Diatomaceous earth ingestion

    At the brewery I work at we have always had to deal with some DE bleed through from our filter. My first plant manager convinced me that this was a non-issue and there was no harm in the consumption of it by our beer drinkers. My gut feeling though is that it is just kinda creepy and our beer drinkers probably would not want to consume it if they knew it was there. I am now on my 3rd GM/production manager or what ever my boss is called these days. My last boss was sensitive about filter junk in beer. My new boss could care less and it is all my responsibility. So, now that I am responsible I am wondering how others in the brewing industry feel about it? As a habit, I shine my flash light in alot of the beer I drink. Ours is not the only one with DE in it. I have seen DE in beer from some pretty respectable west coast breweries..

  • #2
    So put a cartridge filter in the line after the DE filter and be done with it.
    Linus Hall
    Yazoo Brewing
    Nashville, TN
    www.yazoobrew.com

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    • #3
      Fix your filter so that it's functioning properly and be done with it.

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      • #4
        Safe but still disturbing

        I'm pretty confident no one will suffer harm from ingesting DE unless they consume enough to clog up their intestines... maybe a couple of lbs. at a sitting. The management attitude that it's no problem is just plain stupid on a number of levels though. DE can be harmful if inhaled and the public is not likely to make the distinction between inhalation of a gram or 2 and ingestion of trace amounts. If they find out this substance is in their beer (and things have a way of being found out, eventually) they will be upset. It also reflects on QC in general. If this is happening, what else is going on? In addition, a lax attitude toward maintenance suggests bigger problems down the road.

        I would get that inline filter Linus recommended installed.
        Last edited by jerrymcmahan; 03-17-2011, 04:58 PM.

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        • #5
          Shining a light on "west coast breweries'" beers is not going to tell you that a particular haze is DE. Could be many things. Ditto with your beers. You need a lab, a microscope, and a guide to tell what it is for certain. Could be polyphenol complexes. Could be starch. Could be another filter aid such as perlite. "Beer Deposits" is a great reference that anyone concerned with the topic should have handy.
          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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          • #6
            Originally posted by gitchegumee
            Shining a light on "west coast breweries'" beers is not going to tell you that a particular haze is DE. Could be many things. Ditto with your beers. You need a lab, a microscope, and a guide to tell what it is for certain. Could be polyphenol complexes. Could be starch. Could be another filter aid such as perlite. "Beer Deposits" is a great reference that anyone concerned with the topic should have handy.

            Actually I have spent a bit of time looking at our beer and others beer under the micro scope. We have the book "beer deposits". I believe I can determine pretty accurately what the "junk" in a beer is by shinning a flash light in it. Is it as accurate as the micro scope? Heck no. I know what DE looks like under the micro scope though. I alos know what DE looks like under the flash light.
            Just to check my self, next time I think I see DE in another breweries beer I will spin it down and look at it under the micro scope.
            Having the filtration issues we have had I encourage our employee to really look at the beer they are drinking ours or others. I do the same.

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            • #7
              Sounds like you've done your homework. I can't tell what the haze in a beer is without either lab work, or some history of the process. For example, if we don't get our Light beer cold enough before filtration, then we get a very fine chill haze. Don't need a lab to know what that is. We use perlite for filter media. When we package, we take the first keg from the brite tank and hold it for promotional use. Figure that if there is any residual filter media in the tank, it will come out with this keg. Never had a concern with the health implications of residual perlite or DE. You will always get a small degree of bleed through. A polishing filter will remove it if you have a concern. Most DE filters (Velo, for example) come with a cartridge filter to do just this. Especially helpful at the end of a run. Good luck!
              Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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              • #8
                Wasn't it Marie Antoinette who said "Let them eat dirt?"

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Larry Doyle
                  Wasn't it Marie Antoinette who said "Let them eat dirt?"
                  Pretty sure it was cake, cause I like cake.
                  Cheers!
                  David R. Pierce

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                  • #10
                    how to Identify DE easily

                    If you want to know how to identify DE under the microscope take a sample od DE and dilute it in 10 times the amount of water. Its pretty crazy stuff under the microscope and once you know what you are looking for you will always be able to identify suspect filter samples under the microscope.

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                    • #11
                      I am assuming your filter sizing is fairly small. I run a 2 sq m filter with 25 horizontal plates. All the plates pass visual inspection for damage but I do occasionally get some bleed based on pressure changes, power outages, etc...
                      I have a 10" filter housing with a 5 micron string wound trap filter that shows if you have any bleed. It happens once every 20 filtrations or so but I feel better having it and I know it has done its job the moment I open it up and the end of every filtration. Anything to sleep better at night.

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                      • #12
                        Quick MSDS & Research Paper Scan

                        We don't use DE, so no MSDSes on hand, but the one I found in PDF form on the Web didn't have any exposure information on ingestion, just inhalation. Medical help: only if a large amount is ingested (think Lik-A-Stix).

                        Found a study on rats on PubMed reiterating that levels ingested must be fairly high (on the order of nearly grams per kg bodyweight). But I don't have access further to actually read it.

                        And this on the FDA website reiterating both the above for the whole class of substances:



                        ...now that's not to say "don't worry about it", because science is only as good as the current body of knowledge, but it seems you'd have to drink a hell of a lot of it to be concerned ... and there is some reference in these articles to this class of substances being beneficial up to a point (like most things, ne?).

                        That said, I'm not a big propenent of DE in general because of the risk to workers over time. There's plenty of opportunity to inhale stuff working in this industry, already -- be that from malt dust, hop dust, or steamy cleaning solutions. Not to mention all the times I knock my damn head on shit.

                        The abrasive nature of it for inhalation makes me wonder in a commonsense way about how someone's gut might deal (or not deal) with it. But then, I don't know for sure that it would necessarily act in an abrasive manner up in there. More correctly put: I don't know.

                        For what it's worth...

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                        • #13
                          I don't think a little filter bleed is going to harm anyone... it might provide a little roughage and if you chew your beer it might wear down your teeth a bit, but... .. but I think it is very inelegant and I'd be getting rid of it too.

                          What I really wanted to add is when it comes to detecting it, I've always found that a sniff and a lick is the best starting point. I like to sample the water-beer interface when I'm bringing on beer at the filter before cutting into the bright tank and you really can taste the presence or absence of earth. Yucky stuff.... keep it out of beer!



                          Originally posted by mike_capaldo
                          If you want to know how to identify DE under the microscope take a sample od DE and dilute it in 10 times the amount of water. Its pretty crazy stuff under the microscope and once you know what you are looking for you will always be able to identify suspect filter samples under the microscope.
                          Nice one, Mike. I'm putting that on my list of things to do.

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                          • #14
                            ...and I also don't really want it interfering with an otherwise tasty beer experience.

                            ...and I think your employer should have already addressed it when it became a problem in the first place.

                            ...and I agree with Kush regarding cake; though I do have a particular weakness for pumpkin chocolate chunk muffins.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by NinkasiSwain
                              That said, I'm not a big propenent of DE in general because of the risk to workers over time. There's plenty of opportunity to inhale stuff working in this industry, already -- be that from malt dust, hop dust, or steamy cleaning solutions. Not to mention all the times I knock my damn head on shit.

                              The abrasive nature of it for inhalation makes me wonder in a commonsense way about how someone's gut might deal (or not deal) with it. But then, I don't know for sure that it would necessarily act in an abrasive manner up in there. More correctly put: I don't know.

                              For what it's worth...
                              I think the biggest point of difference is that it's a nasty carcinogenic substance in the lungs, but as far as I know there's no cancer risk with ingestion. I remember reading something somewhere about spent earth being OK for meat cows (as opposed to the milk ones) because by the time their teeth grind down from chewing all that DE they're off to the abbatoir anyway.

                              But when you come down to the academics of it, I still would rather not have it in my beer.

                              I hit my damned head on shit too.

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