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Thread: Calling all GAI Filler/Capper users

  1. #196
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
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    1,985

    Stack seals, cont.

    Sorry about that. I'll try to get back on track.

    The bottom, A, ring has only one set of two seals. They're on top of the ring.

    To assemble a top seal set, first slide the ring onto the shaft. Slide the two plastic rings down over the shaft--be careful, they're really tight. Push them fully into the pocket of the stack ring:

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    Then grease the rubber o-rings well--I used plumber's silicone grease--and push the o-rings down into the pocket. Be sure they're pushed all the way down between the plastic rings and the pocket of the stack ringA smallish flat-blade screwdriver helps, but be careful not to damage the o-ring. Make sure the o-rings are fully seated.

    Between each of the stack rings is a spacer. The spacer has two tiny weep holes, which are probably clogged:

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    A 5/64" drill bit is perfect for cleaning them out.

    Slide that spacer on, and you're ready for the next set of seals and stack ring. This set will be on the bottom of the stack ring.

    Push another set of plastic rings over the shaft and down to the top of the spacer ring:

    This is where the last photo in the post above goes. The attachment manager here sucks.

    Next, push two rubber o-rings into the pocket in the base of the next (G) ring.

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    Make sure they're well lubed. Push the G ring onto the shaft and down until the o-rings seat over the plastic rings. This will take some pushing, twisting and cursing.

    For the rest, proceed as above.

    The last part to go on for now is the flanged white bushing:

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    The stack should now look like this:

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    And we're ready to install it on the bowl.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 02-21-2019 at 02:24 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  2. #197
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985

    Stack seals, finale.

    This is where the witness mark you made earlier comes in handy. Well, vital, actually. I marked the bolt hole closest to me where I was standing inside the case of the machine.

    Take a careful look at the ports on the stack rings. You don't want this:

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    Once the stack is pushed into place, it's very hard to remove without damaging the o-ring on the bottom of the stack. I ended up removing three of the four studs so I could get the ports lined up properly.

    Since you were careful and didn't screw that up, you can now attach the metal lines to the ports. Leave both gland nuts on each line loose for now. Place the big retaining ring on top of the studs and carefully tighten the four nuts in an alternating pattern.

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    Now tighten those gland nuts. Place the top of the stack on, being sure you get the ports lined up with the right passages. Don't forget the three OR 112 o-rings! Start the three Allen-head bolts that secure the top and get them as tight as you can until the shaft starts to turn. Place the stabilizer bar over the big stud and on top of the stack, and use your Allen wrench in one of the center bolts to turn the shaft until the bolt holes line up. Screw in the three short bolts that secure the stabilizer bar and tighten them. Now go back and tighten the three inner bolts. Attach the three white PE lines to the proper ports on top of the stack.

    Name:  2019-02-20 026 GAI Stack.jpg
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    You're done! Grab a beer and contemplate lying on your back inside the base of the machine tomorrow to replace the bottom stack seals!
    Last edited by TGTimm; 02-20-2019 at 03:56 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  3. #198
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985

    How to replce the bottom stack seals?

    Has anyone done this on a GAI 3003A Bier? I need to replace these, but have no idea where to start this time.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  4. #199
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    I tackled the lower stack seals today. When I asked Prospero for all the parts I'd need, they left a few out--like all the seals for the vacuum part of the stack, so I only did the beer side of it.

    I turned out to be exceptionally easy.

    Here's the area of work:

    Name:  2019-03-11 001 GAIStack.jpg
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    Very conveniently located under the deck of the machine. Schedule a massage and back adjustment for afterwards.

    Remove the DN 40 fitting on the beer-in line. Remove the four 15mm bolts in the center and you can pull this out:

    Name:  2019-03-11 002 GAIStack.jpg
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    I've already removed four of the five little 8mm hex-head bolts that retain the seals. There are two O-rings, one around the base of the central cylinder, OR 3250 and one around the edge of the flange, OR 4375. Remove and discard these.

    The bolts that retain the flange also have o-rings, OR 106. remove and discard them:

    Name:  2019-03-11 003 GAIStack.jpg
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    Remove the brass seal retainer and pry the two seals, UM 6040, out and discard them:

    Name:  2019-03-11 004 GAIStack.jpg
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    Remove and discard the DN 40 gasket from the beer-in port.

    Clean the heck out of all the remaining parts and reassemble with new rubber. Remember that the seals go with the "cup" towards the inside--bottom--of the fitting:

    Name:  2019-03-11 005 GAIStack.jpg
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    Grease the seals well with your food-grade grease before inserting them.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 03-11-2019 at 03:03 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  5. #200
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    Put the brass retainer back in and screw the five little 8mm head bolts back in. Grease all the inner surfaces well with your food-grade grease:

    Name:  2019-03-11 006 GAIStack.jpg
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    Replace all the o-rings you discarded after greasing them.

    Grease the stub of the beer-in line that slides into the seals with the same. Worm your way back into position and carefully insert the assembly onto the bottom of the bowl.

    Don't forget to replace the DN 40 gasket on the beer-in port!

    Have a beer while you wait for your massage and adjustment!
    Last edited by TGTimm; 03-11-2019 at 03:09 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  6. #201
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Lamoine, ME
    Posts
    43

    #5 leaks (sometimes)

    #5 leaks from the filling stem very lightly with CO2 in the bowl. Other things: it only leaks CO2. If there is beer in the bowl it doesn't leak BUT also doesn't fill well. There is that slight pop as the pedestal comes down. We have replaced every gasket in the filling head and even replaced the forks at the top (which did not look at all bent) and it is still leaking. We even swapped 5 and 6 and 5 still leaked. We swapped the buttons from 5 and 6 and 5 still leaked and 6 did not. We cleaned the little off gas vent screw and nothing changed to the fills.

    It seems like some gasket needs to be replaced but I'll be damned if I know which one it is.

    We are not running it right now but will be Thursday.

    Thanks in advance for any help.
    eatdrinkandbemerry
    Jon Hill, Brewer
    Atlantic Brewing Co
    jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

  7. #202
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    I've had problems like this with the filler heads, too. Switch the heads around, and the problem stays where it was, even 'though you moved all the working parts to another location.

    If the CO2 is leaking from the tip of the leveling stem and no beer is leaking, it's the valve on top of the filler assembly. This is a PITA to replace. See my post somewhere in this thread about rebuilding the filler heads.

    The only other thing I can think of that would cause this would be a worn wheel on the valve closing wheel--around the backside of the machine. This wheel closes the little valve at he top of the filler, which allows the bottle to communicate with the CO2 in the bowl. You can test this by hand-twisting the triangular lever above the filler CCW. If this stops the leak, it may be that plastic wheel. If so, you may be able to turn the wheel around so the valve actuators ride on a different part of the wheel.

    Good luck!
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  8. #203
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Lamoine, ME
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post

    If the CO2 is leaking from the tip of the leveling stem and no beer is leaking, it's the valve on top of the filler assembly. This is a PITA to replace. See my post somewhere in this thread about rebuilding the filler heads.

    Good luck!
    Thanks! I think this is what we're up against.
    eatdrinkandbemerry
    Jon Hill, Brewer
    Atlantic Brewing Co
    jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

  9. #204
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
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    It's the o-ring (OR 3024) inside that uppermost little valve that's held on by the spring.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  10. #205
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985

    Gas valve opening cam seals replacement.

    Time to replace some more seals. This time, we're replacing the seals here:

    Name:  2019-06-26 016 GAI.jpg
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    You'll need:

    From Prospero:

    24 of part # LRC 004125/30--seals. These consist of a plastic ring and o-ring each.

    12 of part # OR 3168.

    Tools:

    8mm Allen wrench--I prefer a 3/8" drive on a ratchet wrench.

    1/2" socket or ratcheting end wrench.

    Small--4"--wheel puller, two- or three-jaw.

    O-ring hook.

    Small pliers.

    Bench vice.

    Food-grade grease.

    Silicone plumber's grease.

    Ready, set, go!

    First, pull the filler heads. One at a time or all of them, your call.

    Next, remove the cam and opener assembly:

    Name:  2019-06-26 012 GAI.jpg
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    GAI loves red Loc-tite. You might want to use a plumber's torch to soften it up if you haven't removed these before.

    Pull the assembly out--it's tight, so pull as straight as you can.

    Clamp the assembly in your shop vice by the cam--may as well remove this ring while you're at it:

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    Take a look at the fingers that open and close the gas valve:

    Name:  2019-06-26 002 GAI.jpg
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    Those fingers are very slightly asymmetrical. To be sure to get them back on the right way, I use a Sharpie to mark the side facing out.

    Next post.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  11. #206
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    Continued.

    With your 1/2" wrench, loosen, but don't remove this bolt:

    Name:  2019-06-26 004 GAI.jpg
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    You want to back the bolt out until these seals are exposed:

    Name:  2019-06-26 005 GAI.jpg
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    Remove the o-rings. We'll get the plastic rings later.

    Now remove this bolt:

    Name:  2019-06-26 006 GAI.jpg
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    The spacers and fingers might now just slide off the shaft, but not likely. It happened for me twice out of twelve assemblies. This is where the little wheel puller comes in, and why we removed the o-rings first:

    Name:  2019-06-26 013 GAI.jpg
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    When you get to the first finger, STOP! There's a key on the shaft, and that fat washer isn't cut for it! Force at this point will break things!

    Reached my picture limit again.
    Last edited by TGTimm; 06-26-2019 at 03:40 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  12. #207
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    Push the fat washer back, and reset your pullers on the inner spacer:

    Name:  2019-06-26 014 GAI.jpg
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    And continue until that last finger is off. Remove the key from the shaft and slide the fat washer off. Now you can slide the two plastic rings off.

    Finish removing the bolt on the cam side and remove the assembly from the cam. Leave the cam clamped in the vice.

    You're looking at this greasy mess:

    Name:  2019-06-26 008 GAI.jpg
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    Take everything apart and clean the heck out of all the parts. Note that there are two of the 5X5X20mm square keys--I dropped one and it was instantly transported to an alternative universe filled with small parts and tools. I had to order a new one--not finding metric stainless keystock hereabouts.

    To start putting everything back together, get out the food-grade grease. Put a couple of dollops here:

    Name:  2019-06-26 009 GAI.jpg
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    Put some in between that cup and the shaft, too, and smear some on the spring. Put the cup and spring back on the shaft. Smear some grease on both sides of this washer:

    Name:  2019-06-26 010 GAI.jpg
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    Slide the shaft, cup and spring assembly back into the body. Replace the key in its groove and slide into the cam assembly. Be sure to note that the brass cup has a groove that the little set-screw on top of the body rides in (third picture from top, this post)--if you don't get the screw in the slot, you won't be able to tighten the retaining bolt down. Screw the retaining bolt back in, just hand-tight is fine for now.

    Contiuned in next post....
    Last edited by TGTimm; 06-26-2019 at 03:40 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  13. #208
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    Now, get out your silicone plumbers' grease:

    Name:  2019-06-26 011 GAI.jpg
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    I prefer this for lubricating seals in a product-contact situation like this. The grease is food-grade and water/heat resistant.

    Grease the shaft where the seals ride and slide the two plastic rings on. Grease the two o-rings and slide them over the plastic rings. Slide the fat washer back on, then one of the spacers. Making sure you have the finger oriented correctly (remember the Sharpie?), put the first finger back on. Easier said than done? Use a large deep-socket (17mm is perfect) and gently drive it on:

    Name:  2019-06-26 015 GAI.jpg
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    Finish reassembling the spacers and second finger. Tighten the bolt that retains them. Tighten the retaining bolt on the cam end. If you encounter any significant resistance here--that spring isn't very strong--STOP, take it back apart and find out what isn't right. Again, force at this point breaks things.

    Don't forget to replace this o-ring:

    Name:  2019-06-26 003 GAI.jpg
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    While you have the assembly out of the machine is a good time to look in the bowl and see how well your cleaning regimes works:

    Name:  2019-06-25 001 GAI.jpg
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    Ooh... shiny!

    Now put it all back into the machine and put the filler head back in. Lather, rinse, repeat eleven more times!

    NOTE: While replacing some more of these seals today, I found something VERY IMPORTANT I had missed: Most of the holes for the mounting bolts that hold the assembly into the bowl have open ends! You need to use a thread sealer/locker when reinstalling the bolts, or you'll have a couple of dozen leaks!

    Now I get to go back and redo all those bolts....
    Last edited by TGTimm; 07-09-2019 at 12:57 PM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  14. #209
    Join Date
    May 2019
    Location
    Des Moines, Iowa
    Posts
    1

    GAI 3031 FM BIER Monobloc

    Anyone else using a 3031 filler? I’ve got a few questions. Crowning has been a recurring nightmare for us.

  15. #210
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,985
    Check your manual. If the crowner is an Arol crowner, I can maybe help you. It took me a lot of trial-and error to get ours working relatively well, but it's still the main cause of shut-downs. The gravity feed for the crowns is not the best design.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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