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Thread: Calling all GAI Filler/Capper users

  1. #211
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Lamoine, ME
    Posts
    43

    dead vacuum motor

    Anyone have a lead on an Elmo-F 2B V2? NY Prospero only has a 50hz one...

    If you search ebay you get a lot of Sesame Street stuff...
    eatdrinkandbemerry
    Jon Hill, Brewer
    Atlantic Brewing Co
    jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

  2. #212
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,994
    What is that part? Which machine is it for?
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  3. #213
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Lamoine, ME
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    What is that part? Which machine is it for?
    Vacuum pump. Pump seems ok but motor is fried.
    eatdrinkandbemerry
    Jon Hill, Brewer
    Atlantic Brewing Co
    jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

  4. #214
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,994
    Here's the parts diagram, and I think contact info:

    Shoot. I can't post it. Must be too large.

    PM me your E-mail and I'll send you the PDF.

    BTW: Did you check all electrical connections to the pump? At one point, I thought the motor was gone, but it turned out to be a corroded bus bar inside the electrical box on the pump.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  5. #215
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,994

    Air in the bowl? GAI 3003A Bier

    Howdy, folks.

    We've been monitoring our bottle DO with a Hach Orbisphere 3100 for the last year or so. We started noticing rising bottle DOs a while back, so I rebuilt/replaced all seals connected to the bowl, the beer lines, and the vacuum lines.

    We are now seeing bottle DOs that increase during the run. At the start of the run, we're seeing acceptable levels of >10 ppb. By the end of the run--4-6 hours--we're off the top with levels in the hundreds of ppb.

    I rigged up a device that lets us directly sample the gas in the bowl headspace (after eliminating any other sources of O2), and, sure enough, the O2 level in the bowl headspace rises during the run, eventually getting to near-atmospheric levels.

    Knowing this, we can play with our bright tank/bowl pressures occasionally, forcing the headspace gas out of the bowl and replacing it with pure CO2, which keeps our bottle DOs under control, but is a PITA.

    I've tried everything I can think of--and everything our brewers can think of--to find and eliminate the source of the air. We've checked the CO2 line where it enters the machine--no O2. We have no O2 pick-up in the beer where it enters the machine.

    I've checked every point of the bowl and seals with leak detector under pressure and during operation. No leaks.

    Our vacuum pump is pulling about 25 inHg of vacuum, and I can clearly see the dampness from the rinser flash off at the first pre-evac.

    Thinking it might be an air leak from the top stack seal, I sealed the bowl and left the pedestal air on for a week. No increase in bowl pressure.

    We push our beer from the bright to the bottler using CO2 pressure, so no suspect pump seals. The only pump connected to the bottler is the vacuum pump.

    We use ClO2 in our rinser water at about 1-2 ppm at the rinser.

    The only time that gas from outside the bowl or the CO2 main should enter the bowl is during the equal-pressure fill, when the gas, which SHOULD be 100% CO2, is being displaced from the bottle to the bowl by the beer filling the bottle. But looking at the fill cycle, the bottle should be at or above the bowl--and far above ambient--pressure at all times until it hits the snifter, at which time the bottle should be completely isolated from the bowl.

    I'm pretty well befuddled by this and would greatly appreciate any suggestions!
    Last edited by TGTimm; 11-13-2019 at 11:17 AM.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  6. #216
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Lamoine, ME
    Posts
    43
    Quote Originally Posted by TGTimm View Post
    We are now seeing bottle DOs that increase during the run. At the start of the run, we're seeing acceptable levels of >10 ppb. By the end of the run--4-6 hours--we're off the top with levels in the hundreds of ppb.

    I rigged up a device that lets us directly sample the gas in the bowl headspace (after eliminating any other sources of O2), and, sure enough, the O2 level in the bowl headspace rises during the run, eventually getting to near-atmospheric levels.


    The only time that gas from outside the bowl or the CO2 main should enter the bowl is during the equal-pressure fill, when the gas, which SHOULD be 100% CO2, is being displaced from the bottle to the bowl by the beer filling the bottle. But looking at the fill cycle, the bottle should be at or above the bowl--and far above ambient--pressure at all times until it hits the snifter, at which time the bottle should be completely isolated from the bowl.

    I'm pretty well befuddled by this and would greatly appreciate any suggestions!
    What is this world coming to when YOU come to Us looking for answers?

    Do you check the beer in the tank as bottling goes along for airs? Did you test the CO2 line to the brite tank?

    Strictly from a engineering standpoint, if you only put beer and CO2 in the bowl and the bowl is at >2atm, there is no way for atmospheric air to
    get in.

    Any air trouble in your kegs?
    eatdrinkandbemerry
    Jon Hill, Brewer
    Atlantic Brewing Co
    jon at atlanticbrewing dot com

  7. #217
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,994
    Thanks, Benny. All of us need some help at times!

    We monitor the DO levels in the bottles, which reflect those of the beer in the bowl. The levels slowly increase during a day of bottling. Additionally, sampling the headspace gasses in the bowl shows that that is where the DO is coming from.

    Monitoring the DO in the incoming line from the bright tank shows no increase in DO. We have no problems with our kegged beer, and get very acceptable DOs from our cans.

    I agree that this makes no sense. Our brewers are worried that O2 infiltration could occur across that 2 bar pressure gradient, but, as I've pointed out to them, the float valve on the bowl regularly opens to vent pressure and allow more beer into the bowl, and this doesn't seem to be related, as the DO problem is new. I can't imagine that O2 would osmose into the CO2 filled space via a leak that was spewing gas. Besides, I can't find any leaks.

    This is driving me nuts!
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

  8. #218
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Enterprise, Oregon
    Posts
    1,994
    Alright. Here's my best guess as to what's going on:

    The pre-evac system draws the air from the bottle, flushes it with CO2, then draws the CO2 down, leaving the bottle under vacuum for a very short period of time before the equalizer valve opens, filling the bottle with CO2 from the bowl headspace. When the pressure is equalized, the product valve opens, allowing beer to displace the gasses in the bottle back into the headspace of the bowl.

    If the bottle seals are not 100% tight, they might be allowing some air into the bottles during that brief period between evac and equalizing. It wouldn't take much, and could just be one or two seals very slightly leaking to account for the build-up of O2 we're seeing in the bowl headspace.

    I'm replacing all the bottle seals right now. While a bad bottle seal usually manifests as a failure to equalize and therefore fill, it's possible that a leak is so small it just allows air in under vacuum.
    Timm Turrentine

    Brewerywright,
    Terminal Gravity Brewing,
    Enterprise. Oregon.

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