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Thread: CO2 use for carbonating 10bbl to 2 volumes

  1. #121
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    231
    So I've been ever so slowly fine tuning my carb setup so that I can set it and forget it. I set my head pressure to 16 and my regulator to 28. From my math 28 is correct based on tank head, wetting pressure, line loss. And altitude (I'm at 9,000ft). The only thing that I can't figure out is how to get it to carb without exceeding the PRV pressure. I get it to 20 psi in the tank and it's really close to fully carved. I then have to bleed down to 18 and then once it gets to 20 it's done.
    Does anyone have any advice, thinking of lowering the head pressure to 14 and the regulator to 26 and trying that but that seems a little backwards.

    Thanks

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  2. #122
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,928

    There are only two variables at play....

    Think that lowering your temperature and thereby saturation pressure would do the trick for you. That's really all you can do.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  3. #123
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    231
    Quote Originally Posted by gitchegumee View Post
    Think that lowering your temperature and thereby saturation pressure would do the trick for you. That's really all you can do.
    Thanks for the info. That's at 36-37 degrees. I'll try getting it down a little more, all depends on what loads on the chiller at that time.

    Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

  4. #124
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Reno, Nevada USA
    Posts
    451

    Venting/Carbonation

    Why Vent..?
    With the three Premiere BBT's installed, I can Carb a 15 BBL batch in as little as 6 hours with no venting. Just Do your calculations, CO2 pressure and Temp.. Only time I vent is when I Nitro a beer.
    And get your self a Archron Spunding device to cap fermentation. you will save a S*#t ton of Co2 purchases in the future.
    Lance
    Rebel Malting Co
    Reno, Nevada USA
    775.997.6411
    ljergensen@Rebelmalting.com



    Quote Originally Posted by gitchegumee View Post
    I've asked this question repeatedly on several threads: why are you venting? Nobody has given me an answer. IMHO It is totally unnecessary and a waste of CO2. Will somebody please tell me why cooling the beer to 2C, setting the head pressure to 1 bar, and then slowly carbonating through a stone WITHOUT VENTING will not work just as fast, if not faster than wasting CO2 and adding just a little bit more to global warming unnecessarily?

  5. #125
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,928

    Nohandslance has it right.

    Never vent. I cannot see a reason why you would do that if your procedure and equipment works right. If your chiller cannot get your beer to 1C, then your chiller isn't working right or isn't sized right. If you get your beer cold, then gently carbonate within the limits of your equipment, full carbonation can be done very fast, very consistent, and without wasting CO2, killing your head, or scrubbing delicate volatile components from your beer. Venting would only "help" if your procedure and/or equipment isn't working right. For example blowing CO2 through the beer to pressurize the tank without actually carbonating. Not good. That isn't the right method. Use the stone to saturate your beer in a tank that has head pressure set to saturation pressure for your given temperature. Lower temperature equals lower required saturation pressure. This works very well.
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  6. #126
    Join Date
    Jun 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    4
    based on the following set up

    CO2 tank ->regulator -> rotameter ->ball valve (for shut off when not carbonating) ->check valve -> carb stone. That way the check valve protects the rotameter from beer flooding it.

    can anyone please post a link for the type of check valve i can use as all the ones i find seem to be for liquid only and not gas

    cheers
    jon

  7. #127
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Idyllwild, CA, USA
    Posts
    114
    Quote Originally Posted by gitchegumee View Post
    Use the stone to saturate your beer in a tank that has head pressure set to saturation pressure for your given temperature. Lower temperature equals lower required saturation pressure. This works very well.
    I've been using this method since day one and it works flawlessly every time. Thanks again for sharing this way back in the thread. It made one more part of the process so much easier.

    Cheers,
    --
    Don
    Idyllwild Brewpub

  8. #128
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Nevada City, CA
    Posts
    301
    Quote Originally Posted by jonnyseka View Post
    based on the following set up

    CO2 tank ->regulator -> rotameter ->ball valve (for shut off when not carbonating) ->check valve -> carb stone. That way the check valve protects the rotameter from beer flooding it.

    can anyone please post a link for the type of check valve i can use as all the ones i find seem to be for liquid only and not gas

    cheers
    jon
    There's this from gw kent. The check valve I have is part of the entire carb stone assembly from Zahm. There stones are pricey, but top notch, IMO.
    Dave Cowie
    Three Forks Bakery & Brewing Company
    Nevada City, CA

  9. #129
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Palau
    Posts
    1,928

    That's my mantra

    No reason to vent. Ever. Unless you're decarbonating or correcting an over-pressurization situation. Another thing to look for in a BBT is a pinned sprayball as opposed to threaded. Threaded connection is far more difficult to disassemble. Also get a removable 2 1/2" TC clamp on your ball-to-tank connection so you can remove the sprayball for routine maintenance. Never enter a tank. If you have some slack in the pinned connection, then it will allow CO2 egress and ingress above the sprayball. Allows you to fill your BBT a tiny bit more and add head pressure--without gushing liquid out the CIP arm in the former, and bubbling your liquid as you add head pressure in the latter. Found this out the hard way. I like to get as much out of BBT as possible and don't see any reason for more than 5% freeboard. Should have known to specify.....
    Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

  10. #130
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    West Point Ga
    Posts
    9

    Wow

    I'm sure I'll read this thread many times.
    Head Brewer
    Chattabrewchee Southern Brewhouse
    West Point GA

  11. #131
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Colorado
    Posts
    231

    Finally got a Brite - Now time to dial it in

    So I have been trying to follow this method as best I can with a few changes due to trying to carbonate my beer in the uni-tank. Well, I finally got a brite tank and have ran 5 batches through it and still trying to fine tune my process. I really want to get it dialed in enough that its a set it and forget it thing.

    Here's my numbers that my process is based on
    Tank at - 33
    Target vol of - 2.7
    Saturation Point - 11psi
    Elevation Correction (9,000ft) - 4.5psi
    Carb Stone Wetting Pressure - 3psi
    Height above Carb Stone - 3.5ft
    Target Pressure at Rotameter - 21.5

    I just started another carb session this morning. I set the pressure at the carb stone at 21.5 and I set the head pressure in the tank at 14psi. At these two pressures I wasn't getting any flow through the rotameter, so I bled a little bit of pressure off the tank down to 13psi. At this I am getting good flow. I have my rotameter set to flow at scfh. I will leave this overnight and see what it comes out at.

    Do all of these numbers look in the ballpark, anything that anyone sees that looks off.

    Thanks everyone!!

  12. #132
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    Niceville, FL, USA
    Posts
    1

    Adapter for McMaster Carr Flowmeter

    I know I’m late to the game (by years), but just wanted to say thanks for this thread! I purchased the McMaster-Carr flowmeter recommended, and was wondering what adapters people have been using to hook it up in-line after the CO2 regulator. The flowmeter’s instructions say 1/8-27 mnpt, but I’m having trouble finding one with a 1/4” or 5/16” hose adapter on the other end. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

  13. #133
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Location
    Norfolk county
    Posts
    17
    Hi guys,
    I know this thread is a bit old but it is somewhat on topic of an answer I am looking for...

    Can anyone with an established brewery give an estimate of their monthly usage and cost for CO2 for a 5 BBL brewhouse or a 10 BBL brewhouse? Assuming they are brewing once or twice a week. What is the size of your bright tanks? (If you have a bigger system that's fine, I can always extrapolate if I know how often you are brewing)

    Also, what size CO2 tank are you using? How much does it cost to refill the CO2 tanks? Is it compressed air or liquid CO2? Did you buy the tank outright or are you leasing?

    Thank you so much everyone!

  14. #134
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Location
    Walla Walla, WA
    Posts
    11
    I have a 5 bbl brew house with both 5 and 10 bbl fermenters. I have a 10 bbl bright tank that I use to carbonate and keg from. I pretty much use the method outlined in this post to carbonate the beer. A 5 bbl batch takes about 4.5 hours to carbonate with a 10 bbl batch is double that time. Last year we were in a tiny facility that only allowed us to do production 3.5 days a week. Our production space turned into the taproom the rest of the week so 3.5 days was all we could operate. We were able to produce a little over 400 bbls in that space with those time constraints. I used 50 lb bottles of co2 exclusively. All of my co2 consumption went to purging and pressurizing the BBT (whenever I did a full caustiic CIP, which is not that often considering I CIP under pressure with acid.), Purging and pressurizing kegs and carbonating beer. CO2 cylinders where I live in eastern Washington State run about $32 each. I spent about $1600 on CO2 last year.

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