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  • Pay to Play

    We are a nano brewery and we self-distirbute. Have about 20 tap accounts now and my normal process is to research an account on-line, word of mouth to see if I think they'll be a good fit, make a cold call, offer to drop off samples and follow up. In most cases it works well. I had been running into some cases where after I dropped off samples and followed up I'd get a "Love the beer and would like to carry it but I've got a bunch of other beers in the walk-in so you would be behind those." So I say, I'll call next month. Next month, same answer.

    So i saw a friend of mine who works for a large distributor and he said that's pay to play. You give them some money, you get on tap.

    Now this has happened only a handful of times and to be honest not with the top tier accounts that have a great beer selection but I am just wondering how prevalent it is. BTW I am talking about some mid-size towns too with under 100k population. Not Chicago.
    Tim Eichinger
    Visit our website blackhuskybrewing.com

  • #2
    I'm not being glib or sarcastic, this is an honest question:

    If you have to bribe them to put your beer on tap, what happens if they take it off later? More bribes? Threats? Worse?

    You can't control the integrity of anyone other than yourself.

    Comment


    • #3
      I just had a bar manager tell me the following a few days ago:

      "I'd love to put a local on tap, but the (insert mega beer brand here) distributor gives the owner free baseball and football tickets so he only buys from them..."

      I politely replied "OK, Thank you. Here's my information. If you change your mind, let me know."

      I never plan to enter that establishment again....
      Scott LaFollette
      Fifty West Brewing Company
      Cincinnati, Ohio

      Comment


      • #4
        Move on. If the owner/manager can't grasp the concept of higher profit margin for craft beer, then they aren't worth your time and energy.

        I ran into similar situations when I owned my own brewery and self-distributed. Not pay-to-play exactly, but there were many times when my beer was given a pass, but then I'd see a beer on tap from a competing local wholesaler being poured into brand new, printed pint glasses. Sometimes, I'd walk into a place and see the owner/manager wearing a Budweiser, Coors Light or Miller Lite t-shirt or hat and I'd just turn right back around and walk out. More times than I can count, the owner/manager outright asked me for free neon signs, a lighted sign for their parking lot or, and get this, to outfit them with a new draft system.

        In my experience, those owners/managers are only interested in cultivating the relationship between themselves and their beer reps for free swag and kegs or cases that would "fall off the back of the truck." I find those relationships disgusting because the owners/managers are making their beer decisions based the extra shit they can get instead of basing their decision on what's best for their customers. Breaking that relationship is impossible - even if you try to play the same sort of game. For small breweries it can be costly and ineffective because ultimately there's no guarantee that giving them free shit will result in keeping your beer on tap.

        I found that the best course of action was to leave those types of places behind and concentrate on great beer and great service to your good accounts. Maybe ask some of your most loyal customers to go to those places and ask for your beer. In some cases for me, after watching our beers take off in the local market and after the owners/managers saw my beers on tap everywhere around them coupled with multiple requests for my beer in their own places, they actually called me up and asked to put our beers on tap.

        You have to be careful, too, because in most cases with those types of bars the staff is completely ignorant of craft beer and won't put much of an effort into pushing your beers. I was actually standing in a place like that doing a cold call and trying to capture one of the taps. A bar back came up from the cellar and told the bar manager that they were out of Landshark (or some shit like that). The bar manager actually said, "just call up (distributor name) and tell them to send over whatever. It doesn't matter." I pretty much gave up at that point.
        Mike Hiller, Head Brewer
        Strangeways Brewing
        2277-A Dabney Road
        Richmond, VA 23230
        804-303-4336
        www.strangewaysbrewing.com

        Comment


        • #5
          To be clear I will not pay for a tap for many of the reasons you guys raise. I am just wondering how common it is.
          Tim Eichinger
          Visit our website blackhuskybrewing.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Legal issues involved?

            We have notice the same situations in our town as well. Be it from the distributers owning the Sanke fittings to bar managers scared that if they switch out one of the large distributers beers they will stop getting free stuff. We try to explain that they already have 10 large distributer taps and switching 1 out would probably get them more free stuff due to the distributer fearing to lose more taps, but this doesnt seem to work. My question relating to this thread is, isn't there some legal issues involved in these acts? I know you can give away certain things so long as it is considered to be a de minimus cost, but owning the draft tower and other equipment seems like it wouldnt fly legally. Just wondering if anyone has researched this or has any insight. Not trying to highjack the feed but I think this plays right into the current conversation and could help get us away from dealing with the "pay to play". Cheers.

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't know how prevalent it is but I hear all my distributors complain about it all the time. That tells me that either they are all doing it or none of them are but they think that's how the other guys operate.

              I've made a point of never asking for anything for free from my distributors or brewers. We always pay full price for everything including the 600 or so kegs we pour off at our annual beer festival. I don't think its very respectful of the distributor or most especially the brewer to ask them to give something away especially if I'm going to turn around and sell it and I wanted to always be a better account than some of my competitors that do things like this thread points out.
              Owner
              Grind Modern Burger
              PostModern Brewers
              Boise, ID

              Comment


              • #8
                It's clearly illegal in Wisconsin. You arae allowed to give "gifts" but the value has to be less than a certain dollar amount that escapes me.

                I think it is one thing to give a t-shirt to an existing account or offer pint glasses if they buy a certain number of cases or kegs.

                It is wrong and in most states illegal to be required to pay for the opportunity to put your beer on tap.

                there is a difference between promotion specials and bribes.

                In my expereince which isn't extensive, the top-notch craft beer bars where the owner is slinging beer behind the bar is different than the corporate places popping up where there is a bar manager who doesn't know the difference between our double IPA with spruce in it and a shock top is where I have seen this. What I am concerned with, is in a particualr mid-size market where these big bars have been getting paid by distributors for years, it seems the small bars that are trying to be "crafty" expect that they should get the same treatment.

                Its a shame but I think we will skip that town and distribute our beer elsewhere.
                Tim Eichinger
                Visit our website blackhuskybrewing.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  It seems like the only ways to address it if you're able to self-distribute is:

                  1. Stick with establishments that respect your hard work and want to carry a product their customers will like; and

                  2. Create demand from the opposite direction. Engage in a concerted word-of-mouth campaign (Facebook/Twitter/etc.) to increase consumer awareness of your product. (Black Husky Brewing - as seen on the "Today" show - ask for it by name, etc.) I know I'm being cheesy in my wording, but you know what I mean.

                  Also, are you able to do anything like tastings at liquor stores in WI? If the bar/store customers are asking for your beers by name, the owners will have more incentive to carry you.
                  Last edited by ChesterBrew; 06-24-2012, 11:11 AM.
                  Kevin Shertz
                  Chester River Brewing Company
                  Chestertown, MD

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by EBC Commander
                    We have notice the same situations in our town as well. Be it from the distributers owning the Sanke fittings to bar managers scared that if they switch out one of the large distributers beers they will stop getting free stuff. We try to explain that they already have 10 large distributer taps and switching 1 out would probably get them more free stuff due to the distributer fearing to lose more taps, but this doesnt seem to work. My question relating to this thread is, isn't there some legal issues involved in these acts? I know you can give away certain things so long as it is considered to be a de minimus cost, but owning the draft tower and other equipment seems like it wouldnt fly legally. Just wondering if anyone has researched this or has any insight. Not trying to highjack the feed but I think this plays right into the current conversation and could help get us away from dealing with the "pay to play". Cheers.
                    Yeah, I think this kind of thing is illegal in most places. However, I wouldn't recommend trying to do anything about it. The competing distributors in my area used to call the PLCB (PA Liquor Control Board) agents on each other all the time. You can bet that if you ever blew the whistle on an particular incident, the competing distributor would find something to blow the whistle on you about - whether you did it or not.
                    Mike Hiller, Head Brewer
                    Strangeways Brewing
                    2277-A Dabney Road
                    Richmond, VA 23230
                    804-303-4336
                    www.strangewaysbrewing.com

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Ditto

                      In my experience it happens in some form or the other almost everywhere. Sometimes small instances and sometime big.

                      As a distributor, we never participate. It is a slippery slope ... And definitely illegal in Georgia.

                      In my opinion, places that require "something for nothing" to put your beer on tap are worth just that ... nothing.

                      David
                      David Little
                      Beer Consigliere and IT Guy
                      Savannah Distributing
                      david@gabeer.com
                      912.233.1167 x102

                      I like beer. On occasion, I will even drink beer to celebrate a major event such as the fall of communism or the fact that the refrigerator is still working.
                      Humorist Dave Barry

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