cask conditioning

[Zucker Bee]

Every time I use an English yeast strain for my cask ales I end up with dyacetyl. While the same beer on tap has none or significantly less.
What does explain this?

We use fresh yeast/speise and a small amount of sugar (35g/firkin) for refermentation. We roll the firkin a few time over a 10 days period prior to cooling, then cool for a week and serve.

Ben

[MPKill]

Racking

Ben:

Instead of using fresh yeast/speise, have you considered racking into the cask about 1.5-2 degrees Plato before terminal gravity? I've had success racking that way. I let it sit in a warm spot in the brewery for a few day, sort of a diacetyl rest. Then I store in my cooler till it's time to go on stillage.


Cheers,
Mike Killelea
Center of the Universe Brewing Co.

[tariq khan]

Diacetyl in cask beer

Ben,

In my opinion and experience I think pretty much ALL of the english strains produce diacetyl in varying degrees, some more than others, In low to medium levels it is normal in english beers, I realized after spending 6 years in England that diacetyl was something I particularly didn't like, having said that I hardly ever get issues with beer on tap, in cask it's a different story, I'm assuming it's got something to do with adding more yeast to a cask, maybe there's too much yeast in the beer?
Anyways I tend to use a dried yeast like S-04 or Nottingham for casks, seems to do the trick for me.

T

[mmussen]

I find I don't have to add any yeast to my casks to get them to carbonate in about a week. Even post finings all I do is add some sugar to the cask, let it sit for about a week and then stick it in the fridge till its serving time.

[scmorgan]

I'm just wondering at the draft beer vs keged beer storage temps?

If the beer is loaded with the precursor to diacetyl, the storage of the draft beer at a constant cold temp will hedge the conversion into diacetyl. The cask beer on the other hand has to heat up to carbonate which will also flick the switch for the precursor.

So may be best to look up the chain at the yeast health and process you are following. Some strains are also noted VDK producers (Ringwood for example), so extra work is required. Before moving the beer are you doing a VDK test (I use the yee olde microwave test personally)?

Scotty

[ammymorcle]

I find I don't have to add any yeast to my casks to get them to carbonate in about a week. Even post finings all I do is add some sugar to the cask, let it sit for about a week and then stick it in the fridge till its serving time.

I agree with you.

[Emian]

I don't add additional yeast, and 10 days at room temperature seems excessive.

I rack to the casks after primary fermentation has died down - 5-7 days with S04 or Nottingham, rack to the cask. I add finings (gelatin) and corn sugar, usually 30g of each for most beers and seal. I roll it over a few times and then let it sit for two days at room temp 20C/68F and then condition in the cask cellar for 2 weeks at 11C/52F. I get crystal clear, perfectly carbonated beer.

I have 4 permanent cask engines served from the Cask Bar (refrigerated bar at 11C)

http://www.santiambrewing.com/upload...86687_orig.jpg

Ian
Santiam Brewing
Salem, OR

[voltage]

36G of sugar for what sized cask? All the math I have done to get a carbonation level of 2.2 says about 100g per 5 Gallons? That's taking into account some residual co2.

[fuelforthehate]

Ben:

Instead of using fresh yeast/speise, have you considered racking into the cask about 1.5-2 degrees Plato before terminal gravity? I've had success racking that way. I let it sit in a warm spot in the brewery for a few day, sort of a diacetyl rest. Then I store in my cooler till it's time to go on stillage.


Cheers,
Mike Killelea
Center of the Universe Brewing Co.

This, especially for British varieties. However, I've found that American varieties really don't like this method and tend to leave behind acetaldehyde.

[soia1138]

I will second what mmussen said. We don't add new yeast. Our typical cask procedure for a firkin is let the beer finish, if the beer typically gets dry hopped then do your normal dry hop. If the beer doesn't get dry hopped in the tank then I will give it a couple days to let some more yeast flocc (we do not fine any cask we send out to account). Clean and sani the firkin, add 2.5oz of sugar to prime (I use about 200-300ml of 175F water to dissolve the sugar first). Give it a couple of weeks at room temp or move it to a warmer room to cut the time down, then into the cold room to wait for delivery. There is plenty of yeast in suspension even with a high floccing english strain to prime.

[dick murton]

Diacetyl or acetaldehyde production after packaging suggests you are getting considerable air pickup in your beer, either during filling the cask, or because you are leaving air in the cask when "filled". Diacetyl development is common in the presence of fermentable sugars and oxygen, so the key to elimination is elimination of oxygen.

I agree with Tariq that many British ale yeasts are prone to diacetyl production, more so than lager yeasts, but all will produce it to some extent.

If you are going to add finings, add them to the empty cask. Ensure the filling hose and fitting is full at all times, and the filler tube reaches the bottom of the cask. Brim fill the cask before sealing up. You won't eliminate all oxygen pickup, but certainly after 48 hours at about 10 deg C, you should have developed the CO2 condition and eliminated any diacetyl produced, and prevented the production of acetaldehyde (this suggests seriously high oxygen addition)