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belgian candi syrups: candico vs. dark candi vs. candy syrup, inc

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  • belgian candi syrups: candico vs. dark candi vs. candy syrup, inc

    I am curious if you guys have any feedback on the relative merit of these different brands of dark candi syrup. Also, am I right in guessing that dark candi is actually importing the stuff from Belgium, so it might be identical to the Candico?

  • #2
    I don't have experience with Candico.
    Candi Syrup D & D2 have given me good results in Dubbels and Quads.
    More recently I had used the D-180 from Candi Syrup in a Rye Imperial Stout with wonderful results. In the future I will be using Candi Syrup products.
    Fighting ignorance and apathy since 2004.

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    • #3
      Anyone know the difference between Candico dark and D-180?


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      • #4
        We used Candy Syrup Inc for a year and a half, great stuff, really delicious. I've heard rumors that the Candi Syrup D1 and D2 can lead to some metallic flavors, but we've never used it, so I won't say for certain. We stopped using Candy Syrup inc recently because I've been making our syrups in house, huge cost difference.
        Colin
        Seventh Son Brewing Co.
        Cols, OH

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        • #5
          Here is what I got back from candi syrup:

          Hi Richard,

          We do get this question periodically. Our products are a 'premium' grade candi syrup while the candi syrup imports are not a premium product by any definition. The import syrups end up tasting like molasses all the way to the bottle or tap. Our D-180 product is rich in bready, toasted, and plummy flavors and is sold in Holland and Belgium over their own native syrups. The largest Belgian owned brewery in the world uses our products over their own native adjunct products. The 2013 GABF in the Belgian Dubbel category took first place using our product. The master brewer made it a point to write and tell us it was indeed our D-90 and D-180 candi syrup that made it superior.

          We also do not have lulls in availability that require brewers to change their recipe and risk their business success. Our products are always consistent and always available.


          Cheers,

          --

          AJ Douglass
          Partner - Candi Syrup, Inc. (a division of CSI Confections, LLC)


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          • #6
            I have gotten great results from Candi Syrup in a number of different beer styles... I think it is a wonderful product and makes a huge difference in the final beer versus other sugar sources.

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            • #7
              AnthonyB, can you compare any syrup suppliers for us?


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              • #8
                I've also used most of the lineup from MidCountry, who I believe is reselling Dark Candi stuff... they are fine. I've never experienced the metallic off-flavors some others on ProBrewer have described. But I like the flavors from the Candi Syrup sugars better, they seem fuller/deeper with a better fermentability.

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                • #9
                  I can add a small bit here...hope it is useful.
                  Dark Candi Inc is a company that I started back in 2005. I traveled to Belgium after a year or so of burning sugars and brewing with them to see how I could duplicate the flavors of traditional Belgian Candi Syrup. While the home experiments are nice and have some neat flavors they are difficult to control flavor, color and fermentability. On a small scale this is fine but eventually the unpredictability is too much of a concern. So, I made a partnership with the major producers of candi syrup and began importing and distributing the syrups and sugars to breweries in the US, Canada, Australia and New Zealand. I was able to travel to Belgium several times a year and learn about the production process and also the brewing application from the brewers themselves. Wow, what a fun time. Anyway, I sold the company a few years ago but I think I might be able to offer something of value to this discussion.
                  Yes, Dark Candi Inc imports and sells Candico sugar and Syrups.
                  Yes, the Dark Syrup has a small amount of iron and if used in large amounts it can lead to metallic flavors. Belgian brewers know this and split the usage between syrups to achieve the classic flavor without contributing too much iron.
                  D2 syrup contains zero iron and has no metallic off flavors when used at any level.
                  A few other points to keep in mind with Candi Sugars...
                  Beet sugar and cane sugar is used depending on current sugar price. Candico is owned by a huge sugar refiner and so they have more control with production, but they too use cane sugar when prices are right.
                  True Belgian Candi Sugar and Candi syrup is a food product and is produced with the highest standards and food certifications possible. I have not seen any such certification with the new U.S. Producer Candi Syrup Inc. While this may seem useless, the process of burning sugar can lead to all sorts of toxic substances if not properly handled. I was never willing to risk that when selling sugar to breweries.
                  Both Candico and the other Belgian producers of Candi Syrup have the finest labs and technical ability with decades of experience and direct brewer interaction and feedback. And they are proud of it! When in Belgium, arrange a tour...they love to show off their production facility and to teach brewers about candi sugar production.
                  I have asked around and none of the Belgian brewers have switched to any U.S. candi sugar or syrup . Certainly not the Trappists and not any of the major brewers in Belgium.
                  I have outlined the production info for the Dark syrup (Candico) on another thread. I have no information for the D-180. The website has lots of marketing but seems thin on real product information. Here is the thread:http://discussions.probrewer.com/sho...s-Candico-Dark
                  If I was new to candi syrup, I would order a small sample of each and do a true blind taste. Then I would brew test batches. Its the only way to be sure. I would then ask the distributor for usage info and a food certification for each. The distributor should be happy to supply all.
                  Again, I hope I am adding something of value to this discussion.
                  Here are a few shots from Candico showing the huge metal forms and Rock sugar production.
                  Click image for larger version

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                  • #10
                    I really appreciate your detailed response brianmercer. I also have not been able to find additional details about how they produce the D-180 but these additional details on Candico are very helpful.
                    Like you say though, at the end of the day one should test out the variables and do some tastings to decide which one they prefer. Since I had previous experience with D-180 and liked the results I went ahead and ordered direct from them and I am happy with the results in the beer so far,


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                    • #11
                      bankbrewer: If it works for you then great. Did you say tried the other syrup side by side? Also, what was your experience with the D-180? What were you looking for from a Candi Syrup? (feel free to email me, I don't want to further clog this post) But, I still think when you consider all factors...production quality, product certification, price, sugar performance in the brewery, the huge number of Belgian brewers using the syrups for decades and finally the ability to save on shipping with CMG already shipping my other ingredients.... Dark Candi/Candico/CMG is the best choice for my brewery. Oh, As mentioned I also really like the American Candi Syrup that I developed for Dark Candi..Call CMG for a sample.
                      Again, I hope I'm helping this discussion. Sorry for the long posts.

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                      • #12
                        I've talked to the Candi Syrup guys before, and they gave off a definite used car salesman vibe. Just like gee whiz stuff like "We use gas chromatography!" and a lot of unsupported/unsupportable claims.

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