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Efficient Design for Cold Side of Brewery - Glycol, Drainage,& Refer (On a Budget)

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  • Efficient Design for Cold Side of Brewery - Glycol, Drainage,& Refer (On a Budget)

    After talking to my investors I realized I needed to cut some major costs. I put together a design layout of the cold side of the brewing process. I think it would be an efficient and cost effective system. After drawing it up I realized that the fermentation chamber would probably be a little overboard so scratch that out. The Cold room is set up like a refer container but with two (2 ton) window AC units wired to cool bots (Not on roof-just ran out of paper). The Glycol chiller is a 75 qt cooler with a 15,000 BTU AC unit with the evaporator coils submerged in glycol. The floor drains are spill containment pallets with a sump pump that routes waste to a floor drain/sink. On the Glycol return pipe from the FVs I've placed and extra line that runs into the cold room and into a SS coil that circulates through the CLT. The end valves on the line would allow me to keep the CLT loop closed until needed. I belive this set up would have several benefits:
    - The CLT loop would aid in cold crashing FVs
    - Cooling of CLT faster if double batching
    - No need to install trench drains in cold room, FV area, or kegging/bottling area
    - CLT loop would not tax Glycol chiller as much
    - Can bring cold liquor temp down even more just before going to heat exchanger for wort cooling. -------> & then to HLT
    - No need for repairs if AC breaks. Just go to your local Home Depot and grab a new one (Or go the Craigslist route)
    - 1/3 OF THE COST
    Thoughts? Design flaws? Recommendations?
    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    Wow....where to begin....

    I just responded on your other thread about the containment pallets. Putting glycol jacketed tanks in a walk-in is like adding ice cubes to a frozen margarita....redundant...

    In regards to the home-built chiller. I know some people have built and used them successfully, but I am not a fan. First off, have you run (or had someone run) the cooling load calculations for those tanks and CLT? Do you know that the system you are proposing has enough BTU/hr to do what you need? Do you know what that homebuilt system will be capable of producing at all? And I don't mean just the btu of the AC unit. I mean how many btu/hr of heat the entire system can remove based on the glycol tank size, pump speed, all that stuff... I'd hate to see you "save money" by building this thing just to find out that it is woefully inadequate for your needs...

    I ditto this same response in regards to the coolbot walk-in refrigeration. I'm not sure the price of those units but have you actually priced out this system vs. a traditional walk-in compressor/evaporator system? You might find that the cost difference is not that much compared to the work needed to cobble together what you are proposing...

    There are ways to save money and cut corners at startup. Maybe you dont get trench drains everywhere you'd like and you have to deal with a squeegee becoming an almost permanent appendage. I do not recommend cutting corners when it comes to fermentation and temperature control. If you don't have that right your product will suffer and thus so will you.

    Not saying that your proposed system won't work, I'd just be worried that you won't know if it will work until after you build it...


    Lastly (and PLEASE don't take this the wrong way), assuming your original design was a more "traditional" set-up it looks like you've had to make some pretty significant cost cutting measures. If your investors are saying there's not enough money to build it that way and you must now make it "cheaper", I would look into bringing on additional capital. If you are already running into these issues this early in the game you may well be in for big trouble shortly down the road. Believe me.
    Last edited by yap; 11-22-2013, 06:53 AM.
    Scott LaFollette
    Fifty West Brewing Company
    Cincinnati, Ohio

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    • #3
      I'm assuming the Fermenters/Brite/CLT are non insulated, since you're planning to AC the room to assist in the cooling load? It might make sense, unless the vessels are already purchased, to go with insulated vessels and eliminate the need for an insulated room and need to condition the room air. Obviously cooling the air in a room with insulated vessels will have just a very small effect on tank cooling.

      The way it looks to me, you could service this brewery with a Chiller System in the 2 to 3 HP range, including the 3 EA 10 Bbl FV, 10 Bbl BBT, and a 12 hour pull down on the CLT (Load calculations are assuming they are insulated)

      A new Chiller System in this size range is in the $8,000 to $10,000 range, you can probably find a used system would probably run 1/2 the price of new. What is the total cost of the AC Units/CoolBots/Modified Cooler Container/Submerged Evaporator/Glycol Transfer Pumps and the estimated labor costs to tie everything together to give you what a single packaged chiller would offer?

      A Packaged Chiller System would definitely simplify the installation and reduce labor costs required to build the system you have sketched. You'd also have a much more efficient, and proven, system that would give you and your investors more reliable operation.

      Obviously I am biased on the side of someone investing in a Chiller System designed for the application. I have worked with a number of customers that due to lack of funding been forced to take a low cost, DIY, route just to get things rolling. Unfortunately in hind site, after allot of aggravation, they realize they've spent as much, or more, than if they'd invested in a system designed for the application from the start.

      I hope this is of some help to you and wish you luck going forward with your project.

      Best Regards,

      Jim VanderGiessen Jr

      Pro Chiller Systems

      Comment


      • #4
        I am not putting jacketed tanks in the cold room. As I said above, the FVs would not be in the walk-in (despite what's drawn). I would only have one cold room for which the kegs, brite, and CLT will be in. I should have mentioned that the brite and CLT will not be jacketed and the FVs will be jacketed. I have talked to several individuals that run a smaller AC unt and cooler to maintain ale temps around the same load or more. I realize many other factors come in to play (ambient temps, cold crashing multiple tanks, wort chilling, etc) and that I am just estimating, but the cost of making this DIY glycol chiller would be close to nothing for me. I'd say it's worth a try before spending that big chunk of change. If it doesn't work i'll just have to suck it up and buy the professional glycol unit. I am just trying to be more economical by doing the most I can with my own resources. Despite all of those things, I was predominantly asking about the CLT loop. Say I do go with a professionally installed walk-in and refrigeration unit, drains, and small 3/4 - 1 HP glycol chiller for the FVs. What are your thought on the CLT loop? Would it not aid in all of the things mentioned earlier? What would be the drawbacks? Thanks for the advice.

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