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  • Am I thinking correct?

    Hey everyone!

    I am having some issues carbing correctly with our brite. I thought through why it is not carbonating and I am just asking to see if my thinking is correct.


    We have our Brite tank with our stone at the very bottom. Our brite sits around 36-40deg (coldest I can get it) not jacketed. I have been doing 15 PSI of C02 into the brite with no luck on carbonation, or very little. No air leaks etc. Im looking for 2.7-2.9 carb level

    My Thoughts on why:

    Inside the brite there is an air pocket at the very top of the tank. Our Head pressure reads roughly 14-16psi. Is the reason its not carbonating because the pressure has equalized inside the tank which in turn stops allowing c02 flow into the tank? If I bleed the head pressure slowly, but still keep it at 14-16 psi(head pressure) it should carb over 4-9hrs correct?

    I'm sorry its a bit jumbled in my thoughts. Let me know if you need any more info.
    Last edited by onetree; 05-17-2014, 03:21 PM.

  • #2
    Don't bleed the head pressure, unless it is "AIR". You want to force CO2 into the beer, under pressure. Your pressures seem right, but your time frame is way off. I carb my kegs at 60lb, over 2 1/2 days to achieve 2.5 volumes. Can't think it would take any less time, given the temperatures and pressures you are using; in fact, I would think that you are slow carbonating and should be good after 4 days.

    If you have run that time interval and have had no success, check flow from your stone and make sure it is sized properly for your brite tank. A 20mm OD X 4" Long Sintered Stainless Steel Carbonation Stone with a 2 Micron Pore Size is suitable for a brite tank up to 6 bbl.

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    • #3
      Thanks for the input. I guess I am at a loss how some carb so fast. This being my first brite tank I've tried to read everything I can and I just seem to be missing this idea.

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      • #4
        Have you read this: http://meheen.com/assets/downloads/m...emystified.pdf

        Start w/ 0 psi head pressure, turn your stone on with pressure just past it's wetting point, monitor co2 inflow and gradually increase the stone pressure to maintain a very slow flow, just above the wetting point of your stone. Stop when your head pressure reaches the equilibrium point for tank temp/ co2 vol you want (or when you reach the max safe operating pressure of your tank). Test co2 level, if you need to add more co2 vent the tank a few psi and turn the stone back on and repeat the process. If this doesn't work, check your stone for leaks and ensure it's installed correctly. The colder you can get the beer, the better. Try to get your brite tank down to 32F if you can.

        Edit: I carbonate 10bbl tanks at 30F to 2.6-2.8 vols this way in about 45mins to 1 hour.

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        • #5
          I carb in my brite 30 PSI of head pressure no carbstone over 3 days.

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          • #6
            It seems I am fighting Temp then with everyone's responses. interesting thank you all for the input.

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            • #7
              Maheen presentation the way to go

              TonyT is right - the presentation he is linked to has helped a lot of brewers, including me. I could be mistaken, but in most places a tank that goes above 1bar (just under 15 psi) needs to be an ASME rated pressure vessel, so keep that in mind if you plan to go over 1 bar to carbonate the beer. There's a lot going on with a vessel that is pressurized and then depressurized over and over, especially if it is at higher pressures. Anything over 1bar is really a lot of stress on the tank and over time it can degrade the integrity of the tank. Just my 2 cents.

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              • #8
                I'm just at a loss. I ran a test last week on carbonating water and it worked fine, great carbonation level.

                This week I put our cider in the tank and very little absorbed.

                Maybe I have the tank "over filled" as well. I will shoot for half the amount of cider and see what happens. Tonight I will also dump the tank and pull the stone and see if there is anything wrong with it.
                Last edited by onetree; 05-18-2014, 04:03 PM.

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                • #9
                  What's the orientation of your co2 stone in the tank? Is it fully engaged in the tank, horizontal, and near the bottom? Or is it vertical, in a tube, partially enclosed or otherwise not fully protruding horizontally into the tank?

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                  • #10
                    My stone is at the very bottom of the tank horizontal. I have a check value that leads to the co2 tank.

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by onetree View Post
                      My stone is at the very bottom of the tank horizontal. I have a check value that leads to the co2 tank.
                      And you've tried starting at 0 psi head, putting co2 slowly thru the stone with the tank closed (not venting head pressure), increasing stone pressure gradually as head pressure increases until you reach 15psi head...and the beer/cider still isn't carbonated? Either your carb tester is broken or the laws of physics don't apply in your building!

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                      • #12
                        Carb

                        Hey Onetree.

                        I run exactly the same setup as you and when I started a few months ago. Carb was one of, if not my biggest issue.
                        I run a coolbot (probably like you) and can only get my cooler to 36/37 as well.
                        My brite (from Stout Tanks) came with a 4 inch carb stone that was running at the bottom of the tank.
                        Best case scenario now it takes me 3 days to turn around a batch in brite.
                        24-30 hours to chill, turn carbonation on slowly in increments. Find the wetting pressure of your stone and start it there, dont bleed head pressure and let it sit at that pressure for a few hours, then turn it up again, and do the same and then again to max carbonation. I don't know if this is what is technically correct, but it is the way I found that actually worked and I could get my beer up to 2.5ish volumes in keg by the time I transferred out.

                        As a side note, I also bought an oversized carb stone (8 inch) for my tank from GWKent. I found that this helped tremendously as opposed to the stock stone that came from Stout.

                        I'm sure there are people on here that will poo-poo my ideas and practices, but this is the best way I have found under the constraints of the system.

                        I generally am able to get the stuff carbed to proper levels now, prior to me getting the beer as bright as I want (as I don't filter and use finings) using these steps.

                        Hope this or something else helps.
                        Dave Witham
                        Founder/Brewmaster
                        Proclamation Ale Company

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by othevad View Post
                          Hey Onetree.

                          I run exactly the same setup as you and when I started a few months ago. Carb was one of, if not my biggest issue.
                          I run a coolbot (probably like you) and can only get my cooler to 36/37 as well.
                          My brite (from Stout Tanks) came with a 4 inch carb stone that was running at the bottom of the tank.
                          Best case scenario now it takes me 3 days to turn around a batch in brite.
                          24-30 hours to chill, turn carbonation on slowly in increments. Find the wetting pressure of your stone and start it there, dont bleed head pressure and let it sit at that pressure for a few hours, then turn it up again, and do the same and then again to max carbonation. I don't know if this is what is technically correct, but it is the way I found that actually worked and I could get my beer up to 2.5ish volumes in keg by the time I transferred out.

                          As a side note, I also bought an oversized carb stone (8 inch) for my tank from GWKent. I found that this helped tremendously as opposed to the stock stone that came from Stout.

                          I'm sure there are people on here that will poo-poo my ideas and practices, but this is the best way I have found under the constraints of the system.

                          I generally am able to get the stuff carbed to proper levels now, prior to me getting the beer as bright as I want (as I don't filter and use finings) using these steps.

                          Hope this or something else help.


                          Wow Jebus, you are us to the T. Coolbot same tank etc.

                          Today I got down here and my tank was almost pure foam. My mistake is I put the boots to it at 15psi and made it go crazy.

                          I dumped the brite and restarted the batch. I found the wetting pressure of my stone and away we go. Our cider has no protein but it seems the residual sugars are making it foam.

                          Our liquid is pre-chilled so temp going in was 36°. I turn on the co2 at 10psi. I could see the liquid slightly turning but no foam. I secured the lid and I'll take a look In the morning.

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                          • #14
                            Carb

                            Yeah, slowly dial it up and try not to run past the point of the pressure relief valve. One of my first batches I tried to push and ended up with a foam volcano.
                            Just take it slow and it will get there. It isn't optimal like how some people can get their stuff carbed in an hour, but it's doable.
                            good luck
                            Dave Witham
                            Founder/Brewmaster
                            Proclamation Ale Company

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Patience is they key in a setup like this. I don't claim to be Fizzious, the God of Carbonation, but here's what we do:
                              1. Cold (ideally 36 or below) beer goes into the brite
                              2. Vent head pressure to 0
                              3. Figure out your static pressure, stone wetting pressure, and if you've got a check valve on the stone, the cracking pressure of that valve. (See that powerpoint a few posts up.)
                              4. Set your reg at whatever that pressure is to start. You should hear the reg hiss slightly once the pressure is high enough and the gas starts flowing. Because we cap the beer and recover some co2 during fermentation I'll actually crank it a couple psi higher, since it's already a bit carbonated. So when our beer's resistance pressure is only 5psi I'll usually start the regulator off at 8psi.
                              5. Turn the regulator up a bit every half hour or so, just until you can hear the regulator hissing softly.
                              6. You'll start to notice a regular psi differential between your tank gauge and the wall gauge. On ours, if the gauges are more than 5psi different, co2 will be flowing into the beer. If it's about 5psi, no co2 is flowing and the regulator needs to be turned up a psi or two. Typically we'll hit 2.6 volumes when the regulator is at 16psi, meaning the tank is at 11psi at 35 degrees. So turning it up a psi every half hour (from 8 to 16) takes about four hours to carbonate.
                              7. Once you've got the tank gauge at the right psi for the volume of co2 you want at the temperature the brite is at, you're good to go. Test it if you can. We like to let it sit overnight before racking any, just to equalize a bit more and settle down.
                              Last edited by Bainbridge; 05-19-2014, 10:43 AM.
                              Russell Everett
                              Co-Founder / Head Brewer
                              Bainbridge Island Brewing
                              Bainbridge Island, WA

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