Siebel vs. MBAA

[jsvarney5]

Hi all,

I'm trying to get a gauge of what may be a better option when comparing Siebel's Concise Course in Brewing Technology and MBAA's Brewing and Malting Science Course. I've read through older threads and have gotten some information which spurred some more questions.

I saw from an older post in 2012 that Siebel's class has no practical, hand's on application in a brewery. Primarily all classroom learning. Is this still the case? I think I read that MBAA's does have hand's on training in an actual brewery setting, which makes it much more appealing to me. My primary focus is to learn more of the actual brewing process on a larger scale system, CIP, QC/Quality Assurance, etc. I have also read responses about volunteering/spend time working at a brewery as well but that is not going to be an option in my situation. So this is strictly more of a Siebel vs MBAA question (or any other course that may be better with a similar time frame for completion) . Thanks!

[jsvarney5]

Anyone have thoughts on this?

[JDN]

The American Brewers Guild offers coursework combined with hands on training both at Steve's brewery in Vermont and apprenticeships at local breweries. I can't vouch for those parts of the program as I did the Working Brewers course through the brewery where I worked at the time, but it's something else to look at. The coursework and readings were definitely useful and made me a better brewer for sure.

[Bainbridge]

Bearing in mind that, last I checked, all classes are full for several years out. Better off getting a job at the bottom rung of a brewery and Learning By Doing.

[jsvarney5]

Bearing in mind that, last I checked, all classes are full for several years out. Better off getting a job at the bottom rung of a brewery and Learning By Doing.

I'm currently about 2nd on the waiting list for MBAA's November class and Siebel's still has spots open. This is where my question stems from because I'm thinking about taking my name off MBAA's waiting list and moving to the Siebel class while it's still open to ensure I can at least get into something this year. But does anyone know if MBAA's Brewing and Malting course has practical hands on application? I'm more inclined to hold out and see if I can get into that class if so.

[beerguy1]

Bearing in mind that, last I checked, all classes are full for several years out. Better off getting a job at the bottom rung of a brewery and Learning By Doing.

Having done this job for over 13 years and holding a brewmasters position down. I would any day hire real world experience over a new grad. I am sure I am missing some learing by not getting the schooling. But, many postions that are open look for "x years of experience"

CHeers

[krichard]

I'm currently about 2nd on the waiting list for MBAA's November class and Siebel's still has spots open. This is where my question stems from because I'm thinking about taking my name off MBAA's waiting list and moving to the Siebel class while it's still open to ensure I can at least get into something this year. But does anyone know if MBAA's Brewing and Malting course has practical hands on application? I'm more inclined to hold out and see if I can get into that class if so.

You could talk to someone at MBAA to get an answer. From the FAQ for the MBAA "Brewing and Malting Science Course" website:

"I still have questions. Who can I contact?"

MBAA Continuing Education
3340 Pilot Knob Road
St. Paul, MN 55121
E-mail: mbaa@mbaa.com
Phone: +1.651.454.7250
Fax: +1.651.454.0766

[jsvarney5]

Having done this job for over 13 years and holding a brewmasters position down. I would any day hire real world experience over a new grad. I am sure I am missing some learing by not getting the schooling. But, many postions that are open look for "x years of experience"

CHeers

Beerguy,

I completely agree with you. If I were looking to get a job at another brewery I'd be approaching things differently. However, we are in the process of starting our own brewpub. We will have another brewer who has experience but I want to do what I can to get as much knowledge as I can in a short span of time so I can contribute on the brewing end as well. This is why I'm looking for feedback on what people have experienced as some of the best options for a 1-2 week course. It is to further my knowledge as much as possible (in addition to all the reading I've done) and not so much to help in going out trying to get a job at another brewery. I've looked into Tom Hennessy's course as my first option but he is full for the year. So any thoughts or feedback would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Bainbridge]

Ah the short courses, I was thinking the full degrees. Sorry, yes those are more open.

[kabrewku]

If you are opening a brewery and have an experienced brewer coming in, wouldn't that be your hands on experience? I took the Siebel Concise course almost 4 years ago and enjoyed it immensely. Although that being said, walking into a working brewery was still foreign to me when I got back from the course. Did I learn a lot? Definitely. Was what I learned applicable right off the bat? about 30-40%. Now that I am in a head brewing position I do find myself opening up the work books for reference on a regular basis, but it took me a while to get here.

In short, Siebel Concise Course was a great way to learn a lot, but not super practical on the ground level. Would I go back and take a different class? Nope.

[jmiller1371]

Having done this job for over 13 years and holding a brewmasters position down. I would any day hire real world experience over a new grad. I am sure I am missing some learing by not getting the schooling. But, many postions that are open look for "x years of experience"

CHeers

Yep. It was tough to find a job even after taking 4 different Siebel courses.

[jsvarney5]

If you are opening a brewery and have an experienced brewer coming in, wouldn't that be your hands on experience? I took the Siebel Concise course almost 4 years ago and enjoyed it immensely. Although that being said, walking into a working brewery was still foreign to me when I got back from the course. Did I learn a lot? Definitely. Was what I learned applicable right off the bat? about 30-40%. Now that I am in a head brewing position I do find myself opening up the work books for reference on a regular basis, but it took me a while to get here.

In short, Siebel Concise Course was a great way to learn a lot, but not super practical on the ground level. Would I go back and take a different class? Nope.

Thanks for the feedback. Yes, it would be my hands on experience but I'd rather be as much of an asset right out of the gates than a liability. I appreciate you sharing your experience. It does sound like a great course and can be a good transition into the commercial side from years of homebrewing.

[ChesterBrew]

I took Concise at Siebel back in 2012... There's not any hands-on brewing time, it's all classroom time. Not long afterwards, I was hired by a brewery in my area for their tasting room and giving tours. I wanted that experience in advance of creating my own place (they knew I had that ultimate goal when I started there.)

My technical knowledge of the craft impressed the right people in the organization, and I definitely could have parlayed it into a full-time job if I had expressed a real interest. Maybe you'll start a little further down the food chain, but depending on the size of the business, most places would rather promote from within because the people are already familiar with the culture of the place, as well as the co-workers.

[jsvarney5]

Thanks all. This has been helpful. Seeing as it doesnt look like I'm going anywhere on the waiting list with the MBAA and there are still spots in Siebel's Concise Course, I've decided to go this route. I'm looking forward to it for the brewing knowledge, but equally as excited to make my first trip out to Chicago.