Pros/Cons of gas fired steam boiler vs electric steam

[RockyMountain]

Looking for information to help me decide to go with an electric steam boiler like the Sussman ES-100 or with a gas fired. With electric there isn't the venting, gas, make-up air, fireproof room issues like with gas but what are the costs of electric vs steam? It would seem that with electric all the energy would go into the steam vs with the gas where much heat goes up the vent pipe? If so it seems like it should come down to an equation of $/kW/lb of steam for electric vs $/gas unit/lb of steam for gas.

Any preferred electric boiler manufacturers? I've seen Sussman and Spirax/Sarco


Has anyone used flexible pipe/tubing for steam negating the need for all the heavy duty piping? A plug and play solution? This will be for a brewhouse between 7-10bbl in the south pacific.

Thanks!

[TGTimm]

The main consideration, of course, is simply the price comparison of electric vs. gas/btu/lb. of steam. Neither, I imagine, will be cheap in the SP.

Maintenance is cheap for gas. Just an occasional blow-down, water treatment, and inspection, which electric also needs. Electric elements need to be replaced occasionally. An 18 kW Sussman element was >$500 US last I checked. We got rid of our electric boiler because of this and stuck with gas (propane).

Generally, a gas boiler requires a 1-hour fireproof enclosure with make-up air venting and stack for exhaust. A 1-hour enclosure can be easily built using fire-grade 5/8" drywall.

As far as I'm aware, there is no flexible steam piping. The consequences of a steam leak can be severe, including disfiguring burns and death. The closest I know of to "plug and play" is threaded black steam pipe. In Oregon, an owner may assemble threaded pipe for steam, but welding must be done by a certified steam/pressure vessel welder and inspected.

[TiminOz]

For that size system I would just go with direct fire and eliminate the need for steam. You can fit the burner for mains gas or LPG. What South Pacific nation will you be setting up in?

I am the Premier Stainless Systems representative for Australia and New Zealand and would be happy to help with an equipment and shipping quote.
Tim@premierstainless.com

[CharlosCarlies]

Obviously prices will likely be different there, but for us natural gas is WAY cheaper than electricity. That would be one of the biggest deciding factors for me.

[Starcat]

Choices

RM, my background includes operation and maintenance of a 1200 HP steam boiler plant running Scotch marine style firetube boilers. Along with that I was an HVACR service Manager licensed in the state of Texas.
After working on both Electric and Steam systems for close to 30 years, Gas Fired is hands down a better way to go, but it can be hard to convey to someone who has not experienced dealing with both types from an operational and repair standpoint. There are only a few areas where I will allow electric resistance heat systems. They do have a practical envelope, but not in this case in my view.
If you are simply looking at costs etc. this will not give the full picture.

If I was going to go electric, the electrode style boilers are interesting if you can get the size you need for your system. I do not have experience with this type but they are way more efficient.

Steam is fitted with black iron pipe.

If you put together say a 20 HP Scotch marine style modulating boiler, that is piped correctly, with the right kind of condensate return system and chemical treatment.....keep it blown down etc. you will have a near indestructable system that should give very little trouble ever. It will be more expensive at first cost, but if you are going in for the long haul there will be absolutely no comparison to any other boiler out there.

Some cheaper boilers of modern design will be nothing but trouble and you will be down, down, down.
This is especially true with some of the new shoddy designs that do not tolerate poor water quality.
A decent atmospheric sectional boiler is made by Burnham.

[RockyMountain]

Thanks for the info. One of the main reasons we are looking at electric steam vs direct fire or gas/heating oil fired steam is that we have several challenges venting the exhaust. In addition there is no piped natural gas available but rather small propane bottles. Several breweries here (New Zealand) use heating elements directly in their kettles but I'd rather not pursue that route. I will look into all the options but will keep your thoughts. Thanks!

[TGTimm]

.... In addition there is no piped natural gas available but rather small propane bottles. Several breweries here (New Zealand) use heating elements directly in their kettles but I'd rather not pursue that route....

I can see how that might be a deal breaker for gas. Our 1.25 mBtu burner can use as much as 30 lb/hour at full steam, and we have two 1,000 lb propane tanks to keep it fed.

[BrewMage22]

Columbia Boiler?

Hey Warren,

How does a man of your experience feel about Columbia's line of boilers? I recently installed a Columbia MPH 40 (40 HP) steel tube boiler. We also installed a chemical feed system with softened water and corrosion inhibitors. The boiler and burner (1.68 MBtu Powerflame) seem very efficient (130 gallons of 50 degree feedwater heated to 6 psi steam in 15 minutes). Is there anything we should look out for, or need to know that I may not have heard already?

Having run electric and gas fired I agree with your assessment, gas-fired is the way to go.

Cheers,

SD

[TGTimm]

SD- I'm not Warren, but I do have some experience with Columbia boilers.

We installed our second Columbia WL90 about three years ago. The first, installed originally in a brewery in N. Cal. in '96, developed a leak from the steam chamber into the firebox. This boiler had a very hard life. I don't believe it ever was fed anything but untreated mains water, and spent half its life in a marine environment. 24 years of service under these conditions speaks very well of the quality of Columbia boilers.

These boilers are not repairable, so we replaced it. Obviously, we're happy with the Columbia, as we purchased an identical model, with greatly improved burner and controls.

The one thing we changed was the water heating coils. They were basically useless (we could not support a kettle boil while the heater coils were in use), and very prone to developing leaks into the steam chamber, which would flood it. We bagged them.

Your MPH is a rather different (better?) boiler from our WL, but I think you'll be happy with it. Using treated, softened water should give you a very long lifespan.

BTW--something we learned: don't build the boiler room around the boiler. We had to remove an outside wall to replace ours.

[Bigredwelder]

RockyMountain,

This is Red from Bennett Forgeworks, we are located not far from you in Ridgway, CO. We fabricate 3.5, 5, 7, 10, 15 and 20bbl brew houses, fermenters, bright tanks, grain mills and grist hydrators. I'm proud to be manufacturing this equipment here in the US, providing better overall quality and bang for the buck than anyone else.

Based on the size system you are talking about, I would recommend going with a direct, gas fired brew house. The initial investment is much less, as you don't have the large investment in the steam system.

We have over 60, 7 and 10bbl systems in place all over the US and Canada. I would be happy to talk to you about some of the Pros and Cons of Direct vs. Steam fired systems I'm sure some of our customers would be happy to give you an idea of the cost of running a direct fired system as well.

Please feel free to contact me: red@forgework.com
or call the shop @970-626-2100

[Starcat]

Hey

Brew Mage, sorry I don't always get back round to threads.
I don't have experience with Columbia.
Much of what we ran was very old school units like Kewanee.
I had a bunch of units less than 40 HP made by a Texas outfit called Williams and Davis.
They are rock solid.
I like the " Fireye " brand controls a bit better than Honeywell, but the RA 890 is tried and true.
ON the subject stay well away from Cleaver Brooks.
Any Scotch Marine out there will be less trouble than that brand.
The Electrode boilers are said to be 99% efficient.