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  • #46
    I do not care for the ZPG answer to sustainability.
    I have a slew of chitlins that I teach to be responsible stewards.
    It is the disproportionate volume of "fat slappin'", "gravy soppin'", "biscuit-neck mother f-ers" that inhabit this planet that are problematic.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by brewbong
      Where the heck did this one go?
      I realize coffee comes in a can too but maybe this should be moved to Cafe' Bustello's forum.
      Does that gravy come in a can?
      Last edited by Jephro; 04-24-2008, 03:09 PM.
      Jeff Byrne

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      • #48
        We don't make a party out of lovin';
        We like holdin' hands and pitchin' woo;
        We don't let our hair grow long and shaggy,
        Like the hippies out in San Francisco do.

        And I'm proud to be an Okie from Muskogee,
        A place where even squares can have a ball.
        We still wave Old Glory down at the courthouse,
        And white lightnin's still the biggest thrill of all.

        Leather boots are still in style for manly footwear;
        Beads and Roman sandals won't be seen.


        I was wondering is fat slapping the grabbing of an overproportioned buttocks or pork product hitting the skillet. I think I may be in favor of both

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        • #49
          If we use ANY non-infinite resource, then we are--by definition--non-sustainable. Easy as that. I don't agree with ZPG either. I'm a NPG kinda guy. Negative, not zero. And, by the way, I just bought a manual canning line from Cask. Works pretty well, but there are some issues that I could relay to anyone considering a purchase. Beer in cans is the way to go! Would like to compare my operational notes with others that have the manual setup. Cheers!
          Phillip Kelm--Palau Brewing Company Manager--

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          • #50
            Originally posted by gitchegumee
            ............And, by the way, I just bought a manual canning line from Cask. Works pretty well, but there are some issues that I could relay to anyone considering a purchase. Beer in cans is the way to go! Would like to compare my operational notes with others that have the manual setup. Cheers!
            COOL for U
            I'll be working my fanny off to take you up on your offer to relay useful lessons learned thx!!

            Wikipedia has quite a write up on sustainability...its breadth has me rather fascinated.

            cheers
            matt g

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            • #51
              F*#k plastic. F*#k aluminum. Give me my beer from stainless or glass.

              If that's not an option for you as a producer, I'll drink someone else's.

              As far as the 'recycling' information from Ball quoted in earlier posts, remember that their energy comparison is with manufacturing 'new' aluminum cans (smelting, bauxite mining in third world conditions). 'New' aluminum is incredibly energy consumptive.

              Besides which, it's aluminum. Yeecchh.

              Pax.

              Liam
              Liam McKenna
              www.yellowbellybrewery.com

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              • #52
                Right ON

                I'm with you Liam but lets not forget to add wood to the good list!

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                • #53
                  I'm looking into a canning line as well at the moment. In our area the glass does not get recycled but instead gets ground up to use for filtration in the landfill. As to the energy consumption going into new aluminum, how much worse is that when combined with recycled aluminum versus the energy consumption used to manufacture and transport glass. With the way my shipping prices and energy surcharges have went up I'm guessing the aluminum may actually end up requiring less energy and have a smaller carbon footprint overall. If anyone knows of a site to support or refute this I'd love to see it.
                  BJ Knoke
                  Hub City Brewing Company
                  "The Largest Microbrewery In Stanley, Iowa"

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by HubCity
                    "In our area the glass does not get recycled but instead gets ground up to use for filtration in the landfill."

                    As to the energy consumption going into new aluminum, how much worse is that when combined with recycled aluminum versus the energy consumption used to manufacture and transport glass. With the way my shipping prices and energy surcharges have went up I'm guessing the aluminum may actually end up requiring less energy and have a smaller carbon footprint overall. If anyone knows of a site to support or refute this I'd love to see it.
                    In Ontario, Canada (where Liam has spent some of his working life), virtually all of our collected brown glass is non-recyclable. An acquintance of mine in Cornwall Ontario would daily receive truckloads of beer glass (brewers, Brewers Retails, etc...) that were sent from every corner of the province. The fear of ceramic contamination that stops a furnace in incredibly small amounts has relegated brewery glass to landfill - it is inert and thus fits into landfill - has made all brewery glass virtually non recyclable. I would love to hear some industry types reply to this issue with real data as opposed to government or beer store derived bull.

                    I, as well, would like to see data not derived by agenda driven humans - though for the life of me I can't see any reason to compile the info if you don't have an agenda - so I guess what we require is average consumptive numbers to do certain tasks. Remember, a 355ml can is 15 gr and 5" tall versus 205 gr for a US 1 way or 270 gr for a Cdn 2 way bottle that are both 9" tall. Beer is weight. The longneck bottle is a massive waste of space in a truck. The extra packaging required is 1 way, 1 use and a testimony to our arrogance as North Americans with way too many trees to burn. The carbon footprint is changing by the hour based on energy and material inputs.

                    There is a lot in this argument and probably not a lot of info that key players are willing to release. This forum could obviously be a solution to that.

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Rob Creighton
                      The fear of ceramic contamination that stops a furnace in incredibly small amounts has relegated brewery glass to landfill - it is inert and thus fits into landfill - has made all brewery glass virtually non recyclable.
                      I was not aware of this problem, so I looked into it a little more. From this document :

                      "Ceramics Ceramic contamination is a broad category including dishware, porcelain caps, pottery, heat resistant cookware (Pyrex™, Visionware™), mirror glass, laboratory glass, light bulbs, crystal, and window glass. Ceramics can be removed manually or with automated systems... Many ceramic contaminants smaller No. 12 mesh melt in the furnace, but larger pieces can result in ceramic inclusions in finished glass containers and clogged fiberglass forming equipment."

                      The obvious source is those ceramic caps most frequently seen on Grolsch and the like. We are not going to stop those being used, but perhaps technology will solve the problem - when the price is right.

                      Gregg
                      Gregg

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                      • #56
                        What Will Happen if Natural Resources Run Out?

                        Interesting article:
                        Scary Question: What Will Happen if Natural Resources Run Out?
                        On our wonderful planet, there are multiple natural resources that help make life easier. We use trees for making paper products and they provide us with oxygen. We use natural gas to heat our homes and coal to help us produce electricity. Freshwater fish are a staple in the American diet and we pump billions of barrels of oil out of the ground to fuel our automobiles.

                        But what happens when natural resources become scarce, or worse, when they run out?

                        What are the implications of such a thing? And how can we create environmental sustainability?

                        Here’s what you need to know.

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