Opinions on Cask SAMS

[Gbbc]

Hi to all,

We have had a Cask SAMS 3 head filler for nearly 9 months now and would like to hear opinions from other users of this model. Do you like it etc.? We seem to always run into problems with this unit. Without fail, just about every second run we will have to shut down the unit fixing one of numerous problems, losing time and sometimes allot of beer.

In the 9 months we have had it, we have had both table sensors die twice, replacing it with better sensors from Festo (which they recommended), one fill head sensor died, one fill head coil died, and forever having tension problems with the rubber bands on the lid dispenser, causing lids to miss.

We are wondering if this is just the nature of the beast or are we having allot of bad luck?

[Starcat]

Tuning and Retrofit

Gbbc, we are dealing with a different model machine but there may be some similarities.
If you can show me some photos of your lid magazene and sensors etc. I may be able to offer some advice based on our experience.
What I am seeing with Cask is the need to go back and correct some instabilities with existing equipment while they are busy getting their new product out there. Cask has thus far been unable to acknowledge or address this need with former customers. If they could move forward on this Tenet, it would pay off in spades both for them and us, but it would take resources, time, and funds.


You can get me at:
brewmoab@hotmail.com

[Gbbc]

Thank you Starcat, I will send you some pictures later this week.

[Starcat]

Tension setting

If you have the lid magazene that has 2 SS tubes that the rubber bands go thru, the tension on the TOP one needs to be way tight and the BOTTOM one way loose.

[fuelforthehate]

Do you have an older SAMS whose proximity switches use the three-prong split connection or are your line's sensors hardwired into the panel? We found on our SAMS, whose sensors were the former (older) configuration, that moisture would sometimes get into the connection and the sensor would require replacing. We would wrap the connection with electrical tape to try to shield it from any sort of moisture, be it from operation or during cleaning. Not sure about the fill sensor, as we've never really had any issues with those. As for the coils, we had a number burn out in the two years we used the SAMS. Are you overheating them during CIP?

The lid dispense can be a real PIA sometimes. The position of the actual chute is very important. Also make sure that both sides of the rubber band that holds the bottom cylinder feed immediately in a similar configuration. For instance, if you feed one side directly under the bottom peg, make sure the other side feeds under the bottom peg on the other side, as the lids won't dispense evenly you run the risk of missing lids. Any photos of your setup would be useful.

[Gbbc]

Do you have an older SAMS whose proximity switches use the three-prong split connection or are your line's sensors hardwired into the panel? We found on our SAMS, whose sensors were the former (older) configuration, that moisture would sometimes get into the connection and the sensor would require replacing. We would wrap the connection with electrical tape to try to shield it from any sort of moisture, be it from operation or during cleaning. Not sure about the fill sensor, as we've never really had any issues with those. As for the coils, we had a number burn out in the two years we used the SAMS. Are you overheating them during CIP?

The lid dispense can be a real PIA sometimes. The position of the actual chute is very important. Also make sure that both sides of the rubber band that holds the bottom cylinder feed immediately in a similar configuration. For instance, if you feed one side directly under the bottom peg, make sure the other side feeds under the bottom peg on the other side, as the lids won't dispense evenly you run the risk of missing lids. Any photos of your setup would be useful.

Hi fuelforthehate,
We retro fit out the festo sensors that came with the line for ones that our festo rep recommended as more appropriate for caustic wash down, apparently the stock ones are desensitised really quickly by chemical exposure. We have also gone to a non caustic/alkaline salt detergent after everything that wasn't stainless started to corrode.
Fully agree with you on the lid dispense- definitely the most inconsistent spot on the line. Between the adjustments to the speed of the to seamer push ram (consistently having to slow it down) to the variation in the rubbers, mismatches and missed ends are were we have the most losses.
Another quick question- when your coils burned out, did the filler fail to turn off and run beer the whole time?
Cheers for your help.
Morgan

[Gbbc]

If you have the lid magazene that has 2 SS tubes that the rubber bands go thru, the tension on the TOP one needs to be way tight and the BOTTOM one way loose.

Hi Warren,
On your advise we ran the top rubber with more tension this week and it seemed to have an positive impact. Also slowing the push to seamer ram (again) seemed to help as well.
Constant adjustments seem to be the nature of the beast here.
It could be worse I suppose- we could be bottling...
Thanks for your help
Morgan

[fuelforthehate]

Hi fuelforthehate,
We retro fit out the festo sensors that came with the line for ones that our festo rep recommended as more appropriate for caustic wash down, apparently the stock ones are desensitised really quickly by chemical exposure. We have also gone to a non caustic/alkaline salt detergent after everything that wasn't stainless started to corrode.
Fully agree with you on the lid dispense- definitely the most inconsistent spot on the line. Between the adjustments to the speed of the to seamer push ram (consistently having to slow it down) to the variation in the rubbers, mismatches and missed ends are were we have the most losses.
Another quick question- when your coils burned out, did the filler fail to turn off and run beer the whole time?
Cheers for your help.
Morgan

My understanding (I haven't actually pulled apart a filler assembly in quite some time) is that the filler valves are fail-close. That is, the coil excites the little bullet-shaped piston to open the valve. When not receiving a signal, the valve should remain closed. The only times I've ever seen the filler fail to stop was 1) when the head pressure on the donor tank got too high (17 PSI, 20bbl BBT. But that looked more like a leak than fully open valve) and 2) IIRC, when one of the proximity switches failed on the fill cylinder (I think).

Cheers!