CLT and Glycol/Water Tank advise

[3GiantsBrewing]

Hi all,
We would like to gain you opinions on different tanks.
We are trying to understand why we need to use stainless steel CLT and Glycol/Water reservoir tanks like the following produced by our manufacturer:


Could the following insulated water tanks not do the same job?


These insulated water tanks are available at about 1/10 the price of the CLT tank.

Thanks,
3 Giants Brewing

[gitchegumee]

The tanks you show are not insulated. They are stainless. If you want a storage tank, then the stainless tanks you show make fine storage tanks. But if you want a CLT, then you need thicker stainless, glycol jackets, insulation, thermowell, jacketing, as well as CIP, sanitary fittings & valves, etc. Then they have to be shipped to you. That is what makes them 10x more expensive. A CLT is NOT just a thin rooftop storage tank.

[3GiantsBrewing]

The tanks you show are not insulated. They are stainless. If you want a storage tank, then the stainless tanks you show make fine storage tanks. But if you want a CLT, then you need thicker stainless, glycol jackets, insulation, thermowell, jacketing, as well as CIP, sanitary fittings & valves, etc. Then they have to be shipped to you. That is what makes them 10x more expensive. A CLT is NOT just a thin rooftop storage tank.

Yes you are correct, these tanks shown are probably not insulated. This was just an image taken from the internet as reference. But we can source similar tanks double layered 0.5mm thick stainless steel with with either 50mm or 100m PU insulation. We plan to use our CLT tank once a week for chilled water for wort cooling. This tank could be either chilled with internal coil or with water passing through a chiller and back to the tank, therefore we believe the the tank does not necessarily have to be jacketed. Lastly, if the CLT is only storing chilled water why is it necessary to have CIP?

Thanks for your advise.
3 Giants Brewing

[Starcat]

CLT variations

There are different ways to do CLT. One other possibility that can work is to use a tube bundle glycol HX and recirc into an insulated tank to cool down your water rather than having a jacketed tank. We are able to start the cool down process with the brew and have 500 gallons of water at around 40F for knockout by the time we need it.
This is not necessaril a better way but just a different way. There are no doubt some advantages to having a ready supply of cold water and also to chilling it during non peak electrical load times.
The tanks shown could very possibly work for you depending on exactly what you want to do.
I can give you specifics on our setup of you are interested in that configuration.

[jebzter]

CIP is good for when the tank needs to be cleaned without having to enter a confined space. It is nice to have, but not absolutely necessary, sure does make life easy though.

[gitchegumee]

Fine...

The thin storage tank could work as a CLT. I would only use the vertical type as the horizontal types are difficult to drain properly. I insist on CIP for anything that will contain water that enters my product. And never, ever enter a tank in a brewery. CIP is one of those rare cases where it is cheaper, faster, better, and MUCH safer at cleaning than a human entering a confined space. Remember that you are going to drink from this tank. There seems to be a misconception that because the water used from this tank is generally boiled, that the water need not be perfectly hygienic. Bull to that! You should be able to drink fresh, pure, safe water from your CLT. Besides the initial cleaning (these tanks are NOT supplied passivated), you will want to wash and sanitize these tanks periodically.

Any internal or external cooling mechanism also must be of sanitary stainless construction. Simply "...passing through a chiller and back to the tank.." will not work with most chillers that are designed to circulate unsanitary glycol in a chiller loop. They just and simply are not designed for sanitary use. Warren has the correct idea of exchanging the water heat through the stainless tube side of a shell-&-tube exchanger. And this also should be cleaned and sanitized periodically. More so with less use, actually.

You will need a thermal sensor and control mechanism to cool the water to a set temperature. Warren's off-peak electrical usage for cheaper operation is compelling--so include a timer if you wish to take advantage of this reliably. And finally, you should have a sample valve. If for no other reason than to provide a source of cool drinking water, but also to judge your water quality on an ongoing basis. If you analyze your malt, examine your hops, and count your yeast, shouldn't you also be drinking the water? Figure this other equipment into the pricing. So sure, you can make this work. It's actually a good idea if done right. But it's not as simple as another rooftop tank install with PVC spaghetti. Best of luck!

[Starcat]

Additional Details

Phillip, I should have mentioned that our system is only used for Heat Exchange, so as thus its all wastewater in our case.
The better systems would be more conservative as you describe.